Evaluating Units

GothmogtheWerewolf · **Posted:** Fri Mar 09, 2012 9:48 pm

You're right Leonidas, I have just checked. Though its not like defence 6 is shoddy (unless they cost a lot more per compny). Still don't need 'em though.

Leonardis · **Joined:** Wed Oct 05, 2011 4:06 pm **Posts:** 891

Indeed, I love Murins guard, I painted four companies of mental shielded dwarves, I can also use them as moria expeditionaries! And your right, they are brilliant with the shields, but also good without :-)

GothmogtheWerewolf · **Posted:** Fri Mar 09, 2012 10:01 pm

metal dwarves not mental dwarves I think :wink:

NotLegolasJustTipsy · **Posted:** Fri Mar 09, 2012 10:10 pm

Nice input from everyone here, loving it. What makes the kings champion so good?

GothmogtheWerewolf · **Posted:** Fri Mar 09, 2012 10:16 pm

ALong with Buhrdur, its one of the best value monsters in the game, as we said. Look at his stats, rules and pts cost. If that's not enough try it for yourself.

NotLegolasJustTipsy · **Posted:** Fri Mar 09, 2012 10:25 pm

Well I may just do that

Telchar · **Posted:** Sat Mar 10, 2012 6:43 am

Draugluin wrote:

If you take Murin or Durin's Guards, you also have to take into consideration that they are legendary formations, thus removing the need to have an Epic in the army. 80pts for Murin (because the banner is 35) is pretty good for an epic with 3 might and Lock Shields (incidentally, it also raises base defense, not just the shield bonus) or 200 pts for Durin, Mardin AND a banner is pretty good. If you didn't take him, yes you could get 4 comps of Khazads, but you would also have to bring in another epic, the cheapest of which is Floi, who really can't compare to Durin for combat ability.

But Dain, or Gimli are far better then Durin, and cost the same or less. And don't forget that you can't move a legendary hero, which is a severe hamstring to the adaptability of your plans.

NotLegolasJustTipsy · **Posted:** Sat Mar 10, 2012 8:18 am

Telchar you haven't rated Gimli or Dain yet, I'm interested in knowing your opinion as to which guy is the best! Also do a list comparing all the epics from the good side and then all the epics from the evil side, rating them 1-10 against each other? Of course only if you want to that is x x x love what you have done so far.

GothmogtheWerewolf · **Posted:** Sat Mar 10, 2012 1:33 pm

(Nearly) Everyone knows how good those two are, but he did say he hasn't finished the Epic Heroes yet.

Telchar · **Posted:** Sat Mar 10, 2012 5:36 pm

Balin: For 100 pts you get Epic Strike, Epic Challenge, Inspiring Hero, Terror, with a nice fight and might. That is a very good deal. Use him as a secondary hero, leading a warband of Shieldmen while Dain or Gimli is going Berserk in the Khazads. Try and duel a non-epic strike hero, call heroic fights, and ATD his formation. Mark: 7.5

Gimli: I love this guy. Epic Strike, Rampage and Rage are just what Dwarves need, 4 might allows you to use them liberally, Baruk-Khazad is a nice boon. Put him amongst your Khazad Guard and call Epic Rampage (and optionally Rage, if you fight a low-strength enemy) to multiply the amount of hits you cause (the infamous version adding in Aragorn or Elendil (and sometimes even Legolas) is too expensive to be efficient IMO). Or have him in with Shieldwarriors to make for a swift (ATD!) center, much like Balin, only better. Mark: 8

Dain: F7 and R4 just about weigh in to -1C and a worse Epic action (Challenge instead of Rage) to make him as good as Gimli. But then Counsellor and Terror make him better, well worth the 25 points extra you pay. Use him very much like Gimli, only be prepared for far better effects. Very nice would also be to lower your enemy's courage (ally an Istari or Galadriel) and have Terror reduce them to F0 before Rampaging, which gives you an extra seven dice to reroll on and on. Mark: 8.5

GothmogtheWerewolf · **Posted:** Sat Mar 10, 2012 6:38 pm

I would agre with you again.

Balin is most definately undercosted. The other two are most definately powerful (though reasonably costed IMO). At 2,000pts you may see both Gimli and Dain, with Balin and/or Floi.

Draugluin · **Posted:** Sat Mar 10, 2012 7:01 pm

Telchar wrote:

Draugluin wrote:

If you take Murin or Durin's Guards, you also have to take into consideration that they are legendary formations, thus removing the need to have an Epic in the army. 80pts for Murin (because the banner is 35) is pretty good for an epic with 3 might and Lock Shields (incidentally, it also raises base defense, not just the shield bonus) or 200 pts for Durin, Mardin AND a banner is pretty good. If you didn't take him, yes you could get 4 comps of Khazads, but you would also have to bring in another epic, the cheapest of which is Floi, who really can't compare to Durin for combat ability.

But Dain, or Gimli are far better then Durin, and cost the same or less. And don't forget that you can't move a legendary hero, which is a severe hamstring to the adaptability of your plans.

You completely missed my point. Lets say you bring in Dain and 4 companies of Khazad Guards. For the same price, you could bring in 4 companies of Durin's Guards. Now compare them. I lent my WotR book out so I can't do it for you.

daersalon · **Joined:** Wed Mar 16, 2011 1:34 am **Posts:** 265

Telchar...

Going back to Isengard, you missed out Battering Ram. I dont use them much but they could be considered like cheap cave trolls 50 points vs 75 points, with a little less fight/defence, and their nullifying defensive terrain bonuses vs the trolls thrown atatcks... I mean like trolls one alone isnt much cop, but 3 or 4 of them thundering down the table...maybe?

I have 5 of 'em (ok ok only 3 fully assembled) But plan to wheel them out for a laugh en masse one time

Rangefinder · **Posted:** Tue Mar 13, 2012 4:02 pm

Quote:

Vault Wardens: These guys would be frikkin' awesome, except for "we stand alone". This, coupled with no command options at all, means that the unit can't ATD (like, never), and that in turn means they'll get hopelessly left behind and then either flank charged, savaged by SfC, or recieve shatter shields, exsiccate, bolt of fire to the face every turn. In either case, their lovely D10 is useless. Only take them when your enemy doesn't have any mages (or you have Counterspell at least twice) and you plan on sitting and holding the line (which Dwarves do very well), or in case you (like me) are totally enthralled by the lovely models. Mark: 5.5

Are you sure about taking counterspell twice?

Telchar · **Posted:** Wed Mar 14, 2012 4:30 pm

Rangefinder wrote:

Quote:

Vault Wardens: These guys would be frikkin' awesome, except for "we stand alone". This, coupled with no command options at all, means that the unit can't ATD (like, never), and that in turn means they'll get hopelessly left behind and then either flank charged, savaged by SfC, or recieve shatter shields, exsiccate, bolt of fire to the face every turn. In either case, their lovely D10 is useless. Only take them when your enemy doesn't have any mages (or you have Counterspell at least twice) and you plan on sitting and holding the line (which Dwarves do very well), or in case you (like me) are totally enthralled by the lovely models. Mark: 5.5

Are you sure about taking counterspell twice?

Well, no. Just an idea of how they might just incidentally work.

Draugluin wrote:

Telchar wrote:

Draugluin wrote:

If you take Murin or Durin's Guards, you also have to take into consideration that they are legendary formations, thus removing the need to have an Epic in the army. 80pts for Murin (because the banner is 35) is pretty good for an epic with 3 might and Lock Shields (incidentally, it also raises base defense, not just the shield bonus) or 200 pts for Durin, Mardin AND a banner is pretty good. If you didn't take him, yes you could get 4 comps of Khazads, but you would also have to bring in another epic, the cheapest of which is Floi, who really can't compare to Durin for combat ability.

But Dain, or Gimli are far better then Durin, and cost the same or less. And don't forget that you can't move a legendary hero, which is a severe hamstring to the adaptability of your plans.

You completely missed my point. Lets say you bring in Dain and 4 companies of Khazad Guards. For the same price, you could bring in 4 companies of Durin's Guards. Now compare them. I lent my WotR book out so I can't do it for you.

Durin's Guard: -2 heroes (you can keep one even if the other falls to a duelist)
-one more might
-Goblinbane, Orcbane and Pathfinders

Dain+Khazads: - Hero can be moved (far more flexiblity)
- one more Fight
- Epic Strike (means no duels) and Challenge
- Epic Rampage (such a nice combo it deserves separate mentioning)
- Counsellor

The Epic Strike pretty much beats the two heroes advantage, Epic Rampage is huge, especially in 4coy Khazads, the extra epic action would cancel out against the extra might point (both have their uses, but aren't great), one bane and Pathfinders cancel out against Counsellor. The moving hero cancels out the other bane. I'd say Dain wins hands down.

Valamir · **Posted:** Wed Mar 14, 2012 6:29 pm

Score, Dain 1, Durin 0. Yes, the Dain, imo is superior. Not that I wouldn't use Durin if I had him, but since I don't, it will be quite some time before I am using any dwarf (other than Gimli).

GothmogtheWerewolf · **Posted:** Wed Mar 14, 2012 8:52 pm

I would agree, and would go as far as to say that every Epic Hero is better than every Legendary Formation (excluding Legendary Monsters and the Three Hunters).

Ellethorn · **Joined:** Sun Mar 04, 2012 3:07 pm **Posts:** 39

So what would you rate the fellowship as, they can be fun if you have the points?

NotLegolasJustTipsy · **Posted:** Thu Mar 15, 2012 3:23 pm

The fellowship is excellent but it would be a 2000 point game

GothmogtheWerewolf · **Posted:** Thu Mar 15, 2012 3:47 pm

It's not as effective as its componant parts as Epic Heroes.

Evaluating Units

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