I think there is room for 2 species of wolves in middle-earth. These wolves seem to be a bit smaller so I think one could compare it to the Wolf/Coyote co-existence of north-america for example? Furthermore, the battle of five armies is alot more up north in ME, so it's all very plausible. And at the very least, those black wolves look absolutely terrifying! And would you look at that Beorn, with those grey strands of hair to give him some personality. I'm so very happy they made him look like a normal (oversized) grizzly. PJ BETTER have him fight in the BO5A!!

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"Mickey, my friend!"

New troll photos http://d1fgn7wex1bhjn.cloudfront.net/as ... 264210.jpg

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"the same as a duck you must be made of wood"

More new links for Trolls And movie props
http://www.theonering.net/torwp/2012/07 ... p-july-11/
and
http://www.imdb.com/comic-con/photos/co ... m315599616

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"the same as a duck you must be made of wood"

awesome pictures!

@Oldman, great photos, nice Trolls, great character but still have some semblance to the Cave Troll from MoM.

@Amarthadan, there are regular wolves in Middle-earth, but the ones in the Hobbit are meant to be the same Wargs from LotR, intelligent, evil and large enough for orcs/goblins to ride.

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"I am the Flying Spagetti Monster. Thou shall have no other monsters before me"
-FSM.

I dunno, I read the hobbit again 2 months ago, can't seem to remember a point where it's explicitely said they are the same. I would've liked it if they were wargs too or at least resembled the wargs, but this new design looks awesome too.

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"Mickey, my friend!"

The original editions wouldn't, the Hobbit is a children's book. The Wargs are called Wolves for the same reason that the Orcs are called Goblins. This makes it more fairy-like. You have to read the other materials.

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"I am the Flying Spagetti Monster. Thou shall have no other monsters before me"
-FSM.

Very true See this article a non GW based Battle of Five Armies secenrio
http://larsen-family.us/~1066/5armies.html

Bolg's Guards: 500 heavy infantry Uruk-sized Orcs with massive scimitars (8 bases).

Goblins: There are three commands. Two are 4,000 warriors each on the valley floor (64 bases of medium infantry each); 10% have rather feeble bows;s D. The third command is unarmored and .....light infantry on the Mountain heights, with orders to force their way down to the valley; it is 4,000 strong too (64 bases).

Wolf Riders: 1,000 light cavalry (20 figures on 25mm frontage bases);.....

Wolves and Wargs: Wargs are the leader element and are 10% of the total. There are 3,000 total lupine auxiliaries to the Goblin army. The figures pack in between the Goblins, and may react differently to the tactical situation than the Goblins do (see Wolf/Warg Action below).

I interpret this as wolf = wargs and Wagrs = warg captains
To convert this scenario to TSBG you would need 54 riderless wargs and 6 warg Captains plus 20 warg riders.
Two units of 9 warg riders lead by WR captain.
Two Commands of 5 units of 12 orcs lead by a captain and 3 units of 9 riderless wargs lead by a warg captain
and additional command of 5 units of 12 goblins lead by a captain Only 10% bows for this Scenerio
I may add 3 stands of bats to some of the commands,
That is what I am working toward anyway.

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"the same as a duck you must be made of wood"

That looks like a interesting project, and I'd personally love to see it done. Hope it goes well

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"I am the Flying Spagetti Monster. Thou shall have no other monsters before me"
-FSM.

Excuse me, ARE YOU DOUBTING MY TOLKIEN KNOWLEDGE MISTER GOTHMOG?! I've read every single tolkien book a few times except for the book of lost tales which I seem to have lost. (Ironic I know) Furthermore I've been a fan for over 10 years and did quite alot of research throughout those years so don't you DARE doubt me again! :p

Furthermore, I never said the wargs and wolves are different in the books, I'm assuming they're not, as you said, I too compare it to the orc/goblin comparison, but I'm saying it's sort of acceptable. I would've loved to see the wargs return, but we knew the wargs were out of film-business about 2 years ago so... I kind of accepted that a loong time ago.

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"Mickey, my friend!"

I reread the chapter of the Hobbit that contains the BOFA. There are wolves and wargs mentioned as separate creatures. I have not be able to find the other reference. For game purposes I am going to use wargs and warg captains

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"the same as a duck you must be made of wood"

Tolkien has changed his mind about many things since writing the Hobbit. Also, never in he chapter does it refer to Wargs and Wolves as seperate creatures, it does mention wolves and wolf-riders seperately. But Wolf, wolf, Warg are all used interchangeably. The Wargs are only species of wolf that were intelligent enough to ally with the Goblins and large enough for them to ride. They are the same. I do not doubt you, but when people use different nouns to refer to the same person or persons, many readers are confused, not that I'm calling you confued either. Although, as an afterthought, the Wargs could possibly have been controlling a smaller, and less intelligent species of wolf to use inbattle so as to limit their own casualtues I suppose.

I have also been interested in Tolkien for the past 10 years, though credit to you, as I was only 9, 10 years ago. I did, sad though it was, do lots of additonal interest on aspects of his work that interested me; the Ringwraiths, both Gothmogs, Werewolves, Wargs, Trolls, Dragons, certain Orcs, Eastetlings, Half Trolls, Giant Spiders, Variags, Mumakil and Haradrim included.

@Oldman Willow, i think you are right to use Wargs and Warg Cheiftains, as that would be about right. You should also use Gundabad Blackshields as they are GW's attempt at making the Misty Mountain Uruks that would've formed Bolg's Guard.

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"I am the Flying Spagetti Monster. Thou shall have no other monsters before me"
-FSM.

You are certainly right about the Black shields, they would make good Blog's Guard.


" Behold!. The bats are above his army like a sea of locust. They ride upon wolves and Wargs are in their train!" Gandalf from page 339 of the The Annotated Hobbit. There is another reference to a host of Wargs "came ravening" with the body guard on page 343.We will have to wait to 2013 to see what PJ will do.
I have not had time to read my new volumes of the History of the Hobbit. They were not written for wargamers so while they are not always helpful they are very interesting.

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"the same as a duck you must be made of wood"

I found the quote, even though my old copy of the Hobbit has less than 280 pages. Believe it or not that quote is not referring to Wargs and Wolves Aas seperate creatures, he is referring to Wargs and Warg Riders as seperate divisions, rather than saying 'They ride upon wolves and wolves are in their train' or 'They ride upon Wargs and Wargs are in their train'. Gandalf just calls the loose one Wargs, and the steeds wolves for simplicity.

As with you however, I would be most interested in seeing what Jackson will do with everything in the Hobbit. Nice troll pics find again by the way.

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"I am the Flying Spagetti Monster. Thou shall have no other monsters before me"
-FSM.

The difference in page numbers comes from the huge number of foot notes and illustrations in the Annotated version.

I could make the argument that because the noun warg and werewolf are used interchangeably that werewolves were in support. I won't do that because I have read the other material.
We agree, Warg and Warg captains seems to me to be the best solution.

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"the same as a duck you must be made of wood"

Has your Hobbit got enough foot notes for you? Well, lets end this pointless Warg argument now. Feel free to share your pics.

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"I am the Flying Spagetti Monster. Thou shall have no other monsters before me"
-FSM.

I was not aware we were in a disagreement much less an argument. As for sharing the photos that would be a copyright infringement . I will recommend]The Annotated Hobbit[ with over a hundred pages of foot notes and illustrations and appendixes.

With the addition of the two volumes of the History of the Hobbit it may be enough to base an opinion on facts.

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"the same as a duck you must be made of wood"

I should've said discussion. In any case, it is kind of derailing the thread. I mean pics of your BotFA models, not that I am disinterested in your Hobbit, the ony pic I'd ask for of a book is of the cover. Since my the Hobbit is really old and falling to pieces I may get another one soon, and I may actually be tempted by the Annoted Edition, depending on the proce difference.

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"I am the Flying Spagetti Monster. Thou shall have no other monsters before me"
-FSM.

True

I will put them in my wip

http://www.houghtonmifflinbooks.com/hmh ... 0618134700
news
http://www.theonering.net/torwp/2012/07 ... -november/
Houghton Mifflin sent a full list list to reviews.libraryjournal.com of the of books will hit bookstores on November 6.
Check the full list under the cut.

The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey Visual Companion by Jude Fisher.
The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey Official Movie Guide by Brian Sibley.
The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey Movie Storybook by Paddy Kempshall.
The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey Activity Book by Paddy Kempshall.
The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey—The World Of Hobbits by Paddy Kempshall.

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"the same as a duck you must be made of wood"

Looks amazing! I really am excited. As for the Wargs/Wolves thing I'm just going to assume that the southern Wargs are the ones in LOTR and the northern wargs are the ones in the Hobbit, they just look different and are more cousins of each other.