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 Post subject: Re: Will you follow me? One last time?!
PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 5:34 pm 
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LOTR and the Hobbit...was it as Tolkien had written? No.

Did Jackson go off the rails a wee bit on the Hobbit? Of course he did.

Is it the best Tolkien we are getting in our life times? Yes it is.

I'll close my eyes to some bits of it, but overall I'll take all Jackson can give us. Theatrical release, yes. Extended Edition, yes please. Uber Extended Edition, Please sir, may I have some more?

I'll take all of it. And if GW puts out even half of the stuff we've seen, they will get a ton of my money.

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 Post subject: Re: Will you follow me? One last time?!
PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 6:02 pm 
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Could not agree more with my friend Xintao above, I dont care if lotr was better then hobbit as long as we keep walking on middle earth :)

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 Post subject: Re: Will you follow me? One last time?!
PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 7:19 pm 
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Bandobras Took wrote:
Sticky Fingersss wrote:
I can't wait for this! Why do you think they used Pippin's song?


If my memory serves me correctly, Pippin's song is actually a song from the Hobbit book - they just used it in RotK. Besides that point it has very fitting lyrics for the Battle of the Five Armies and Bilbo's last chapter.


I think a variation of the song is in FOTR shortly before the hobbits meet Gildor (and the song was far more lighthearted than in the ROTK film).

Even though the Hobbit films aren't LOTR and are never going to be on that level I'm still looking forward to a final trip back to Middle Earth.
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 Post subject: Re: Will you follow me? One last time?!
PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 7:31 pm 
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Considering the that the Battle of the Five Armies is about 1.5 chapters of the Hobbit, including the grouping of the armies and Bilbo being found after he wakes up and takes the ring off... Peter has surely added a lot between the lines. I know people love the book version, but there really is not much there to make a film battle with, obviously some artistic freedoms have to be allowed for anyone who was going to retell this tale.
I think that that they are showing the heavy cost of war; Thraduil walking among dead elves, People walking away from Lake town burning, Gandalf and Galadriel scene, and Bilbo talking about remembering this time. I like that =, it is the way this tale is supposed to be told... that war and death over such a stupid thing like gold and jewels is too high a price to pay. Bring your Kleenex to the first showing folks. :sad:

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 Post subject: Re: Will you follow me? One last time?!
PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 7:54 pm 
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Sithious wrote:
Considering the that the Battle of the Five Armies is about 1.5 chapters of the Hobbit, including the grouping of the armies and Bilbo being found after he wakes up and takes the ring off... Peter has surely added a lot between the lines. I know people love the book version, but there really is not much there to make a film battle with, obviously some artistic freedoms have to be allowed for anyone who was going to retell this tale.

The reason it's so short in the book is because Bilbo got knocked out like 10 minutes into it. If you've seen the old animated Hobbit, they represent the entire battle with little dots moving around, which is basically how Tolkien described it. He wrote it for his kids, I don't think they would have been interested in actual battle tactics!
Bandobras Took wrote:
Sticky Fingersss wrote:
I can't wait for this! Why do you think they used Pippin's song?


If my memory serves me correctly, Pippin's song is actually a song from the Hobbit book - they just used it in RotK. Besides that point it has very fitting lyrics for the Battle of the Five Armies and Bilbo's last chapter.

It was in FotR and it was a song about spending the night under the stars. It ends with "And now to bed!" Definitely not a sad song, but the way Pippin sang it made it truly haunting.

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 Post subject: Re: Will you follow me? One last time?!
PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 10:54 pm 
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Thanks Draugluin and CaptainoftheWhiteTower for clearing that up about Pippin's song - I had forgotten it was from FotR. Yes I remember it being a much more light-hearted song indeed. But I do love that bit in RotK when Pippin sings it, despite its haunting nature. One of the best shot parts of that film, with the switching between Pippin & Denethor and Faramir's charge - so cleverly done IMO.

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 Post subject: Re: Will you follow me? One last time?!
PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 2:29 am 
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Draugluin wrote:
The reason it's so short in the book is because Bilbo got knocked out like 10 minutes into it. If you've seen the old animated Hobbit, they represent the entire battle with little dots moving around, which is basically how Tolkien described it. He wrote it for his kids, I don't think they would have been interested in actual battle tactics!


True.
But I like that they are also not just having a bunch of armies show up so soon after Smaug is killed. When reading the book, it sort of rushes into it a bit, as you said it was a children's tale. I think I will like this third version as it does look like Peter has kept the under lying thread intact and not made a glorified battle just to make an action film. It may serve that purpose, especially to those with lower attention spans and no more thought than how they can get their date to come home with them. But as long as it also serves to show the moral of the story then I will be pleased.

And man we will have a bunch of models, I hope. Still have $75 worth of Gift Card on my GW account, will be adding to that for the next 4 months.

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 Post subject: Re: Will you follow me? One last time?!
PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 9:05 am 
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rygor wrote:
NarsilReforged wrote:
I think the Chariot has Dain riding in it.

Chariot crew : 4
i think it would be Dwalin, Fili, Kili, Dori :)

Dwalin, yes. With the others it's a bit hard to tell. It could be Dori or it could be Balin. It doesn't really matter though. All that matters is that it's Thorin's Company and not Dain.

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 Post subject: Re: Will you follow me? One last time?!
PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 11:43 am 
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Could be that you equip the chariot with any 4 Company heroes.

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 Post subject: Re: Will you follow me? One last time?!
PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 5:16 pm 
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Well, that looks pretty darned epic!! Not sure the 'book purist' in me can cope well with dwarfs riding giant goats (or whatever they are) but they do look good from an 'action-film' point of view! That chariot is also good, although its a bit old WFB 'Chaos Chariot' in design.

As a fan of all things Elven, its the pointy-eared ones that grabbed my attention. That Elf armour is the best looking Elf kit yet and I do so hope for a box set of plastics for those, as they'll be joining my current Elf force (an example seen in the July painting comp) if that's the case.

I would also like an armoured, sword-wielding Thranduil as well, pretty please. Anything else model-wise is less relevant to me personally...unless we get a nice action pose of Galadriel doing her 'armed and dangerous' bit at Dol Guldur...

The movie will be a great spectacle I'm sure. I loved the first two and this has the potential to be stunning...

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 Post subject: Re: Will you follow me? One last time?!
PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 4:54 pm 
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I think people take this book vs movie debate way too seriously. Especially with this. Im just happy to have them work on a middle earth project as often as possible. I hope they continue to do more in the future as well. We all know there was never supposed to be a Star Wars 7.....well, here we are.

I cant wait for them to show me more, and I believe people are just being stubborn. Are you naysayers really suggesting youd rather have no films at all instead of them branching off from the book? Ive read the book. Some parts are EXTREMELY dry. Im glad they included more in the films.

Anyway, Im super excited. The trailer looks wonderful.

As for the figures, first and foremost I am only felling upset. U have no hope for some models. I have a feeling theyre still going to be mostly in finecast for ridiculous prices. Unfortunately, Ill be buying none.

If the sets come out in plastics, and have decent stats, id be more than happy to buy Ram Riders.....they look awesome. Ill get an armored Thranduil, and armored Thorins company, and definitely whatever Mirkwood has to offer.

Also, as always, more bad guys. I almost always play evil and cannot wait to see what else they have. Hopefully a like 12-14 point elite like their toughest fighters. Gundabads are definitely FAR from elite when ive play tested them......in fact Id go so far as to say weak. I want something tougher.

Either way, this release will either forever restore my respect in GW or smash it under the last bit of their boots.

Im excited and I just hope we get more Hunter orc on warg size ram packages and warrior of erebor sized foot soldier packages. No finecast 3 packs. That is all.

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 Post subject: Re: Will you follow me? One last time?!
PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 5:13 pm 
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Honestly, I've been thinking a lot recently about release schedules, lead time for physical production on miniatures, the perry's leaving recently, Lego, action figures, last minute changes of plans and other things, and you know what - I reckon we'll do alright.

I'm gathering my thoughts for a long post where I try (and no doubt fail) to explain my position here, but the sum of it is that DoS was a whacking great unexpected party, and took GW out of their comfortable hobbit release schedule that would have been well underway well in advance and forced them to go on an adventure ( but perhaps not discover the source of all evil in a game of riddles against a small fellow with a boat and a smokers cough). Also, maybe twelve plastic sets unless GW are in the habit of throwing money down the drain.

Which they are, but BE OPTIMISTIC. I have to. ;)
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 Post subject: Re: Will you follow me? One last time?!
PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 10:02 pm 
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This total silence of coming(?) Hobbit releases is killing me...wish I could find just a small picture or a releases list to might come. But no..just a total silence.. :(
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 Post subject: Re: Will you follow me? One last time?!
PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 10:49 pm 
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I hear ya. I remember the days when we knew about releases two months ahead of time. I really hope that new Heads at GW go back to advertisement saturation... in the internet age, it is dirt cheap to have tons of people talking about and building up desire for your products.

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 Post subject: Re: Will you follow me? One last time?!
PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 11:21 pm 
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Sithious wrote:
I hear ya. I remember the days when we knew about releases two months ahead of time. I really hope that new Heads at GW go back to advertisement saturation... in the internet age, it is dirt cheap to have tons of people talking about and building up desire for your products.


I agree. It is so cheap and easy to create demand. Just release a photo and BOOM, we are all over it like a Gollum on a ring..

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 Post subject: Re: Will you follow me? One last time?!
PostPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 10:23 pm 
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I am wondering what happened to the original 'bridge' movie - you know, the one that was supposed to link The Hobbit to Lord of the Rings when everything was going to be just two movies? Will those 60 years or so still be covered by this film? If so, we may get a few PJ/GDT inspired critters to add to possibilities concerning new minis (young Aragorn, Ring Wraiths, Gollum, other types of orcs, fight for Ithilien and South Gondor etc). Just a thought as this part of the tale seems to have gone a bit quiet, unless I have missed a rumour that states this idea has been dropped?
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 Post subject: Re: Will you follow me? One last time?!
PostPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 10:50 pm 
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I think the 'bridge movie' was for the Del Toro version. All those plans were scrapped when he dropped out. I was thinking about that myself, earlier, wondering what could've been (not that I'm dissatisfied with PJs films, I'm just curious.). I'd LOVE, sometime down the road, for Weta or someone to produce a book detailing what the abandoned films would have been, and showing off what concept art had been produced, etc. It'd be an insta-buy.

I think the ideal ending for BotFA is to end it like the book, with Bilbo, Gandalf and Balin - but I really wouldn't say no to some credits scenes or something, just short sequences filling in some detail. Perhaps shots of Gollum searching for the Baggins when he gets nabbed by Orcs, or Balin, Oin and Ori leading an army of Dwarves to the now undefended gate of Moria one last time.

At the very least I expect Balin's fate to be referenced if the film ends with Balin and Gandalf visiting for tea, perhaps he and Gandalf disagree regarding some of Balin's plans now that the orcs of the mountains have been thinned by the Battle. Balin saying that it's now or never, with Gandalf warning him that Durins Bane still lurks in Moria. But of course - the Dragon was killed, who is to say that they could not now put an end to Durins Bane? Maybe Balin believes the time of the Dwarves is nigh. I digress. Sorry.
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 Post subject: Re: Will you follow me? One last time?!
PostPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 11:36 pm 
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Sithious wrote:
I hear ya. I remember the days when we knew about releases two months ahead of time. I really hope that new Heads at GW go back to advertisement saturation... in the internet age, it is dirt cheap to have tons of people talking about and building up desire for your products.



The releases for the last movie came out in December didnt they along with the movie? Or at the very least November?


Were literally still like 3-4 months away lol. Relax 8)

This will make the stuff all the more epic when we finally do see.

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 Post subject: Re: Will you follow me? One last time?!
PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 12:54 am 
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You know a bridge film still could be done regardless. Peter Jackson didn't want to do the Hobbit but I am happy that he did and it worked out so far as long as you accept the many changes. So Peter not wanting to do another film doesn't mean that the people with the rights won't have someone make it. Del Toro left due to obligations he had made long before when the film was started and then got stopped or 'not Green Lighted'. But now that Del Toro has met some of those obligations there is nothing stopping him from making a bridge film with a lot of freedom to use different actors without much interruption of these trilogies.

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 Post subject: Re: Will you follow me? One last time?!
PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 6:48 am 
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rumtap wrote:
Sithious wrote:
I hear ya. I remember the days when we knew about releases two months ahead of time. I really hope that new Heads at GW go back to advertisement saturation... in the internet age, it is dirt cheap to have tons of people talking about and building up desire for your products.


I agree. It is so cheap and easy to create demand. Just release a photo and BOOM, we are all over it like a Gollum on a ring..


Indeed. In my opinion this is a clear marketing mistake on their part. Apparently they do it because they want to encourage "impulse buying" when people visit the shop.
WTF does that even mean? Collectors who impulse buy a product which is basically a commitment to, at the least, several hours of work after purchase? Impulse buying for gamers who need to plan their army lists and purchase strategy in advance?

Anyway, even if it did make some sort of sense, obviously the massive free advertising and hype that you get on the internet nowadays is far more valuable than the slightly sinister desire for your customer to make unplanned purchases based on your marketing chicanery rather than their own plan.

I think this is another reason they're loosing out to the competition. In an age of instant gratification people are won over by the hype of a product which is actually marketed and advertised outside the shop that sells it.

On the subject of more films, meh, I'm ambivalent. on the one hand I want to see as much of Middle Earth as is possible. On the other hand I don't like "light" treatment of subject material which I hold very dear. I do understand why people who aren't hardcore fans of the literature don't mind unnecessary changes. I also understand why hardcore fans of the literature hate to see any changes whatsoever.
The reality though, is that books need to be rewritten to fit in to a filmic structure, and sometimes, to convey the true meaning of a book you need to change things around, condense several characters in to one, etc etc. You loose something, but keep something else.
That said, while I think most if not all the LotR changes were very well thought out and necessary to serve the pace, theme and dramatic effect of the book, my opinion on the hobbit films is somewhat different.

I think there's a certain degree of "change for the sake of change", or more appropriately, change in order to market the films sell to the maximum possible audience with far less regard for the subject material itself.

So part of me wants to say "if it's going to be more like this, please, leave it alone".
However, if we went back to the way Jackson treated the LotR, more please!

Some of the later material in the Silmarillion would be very suitable for film treatment. The Tragedy of Turin Turambar springs to mind. Perhaps even Beren and Luthien. Just nothing where depiction of the Valar or Valinor is necessary. The Middle Earth stories, basically.

However, I can't imagine a project who's goal was to treat the material respectfully and with the tone it was intended to be told in would ever get the sort of funding necessary to make them on the scale of LotR or Hobbit.

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