Ive seen alot of talk about him, his scale, and his points value/stats. I for one, am not so very involved in the debate of the model coming out, but Im always interested in the gaming side of it.

My question to you one ringers, is do you think this profile I just made up is about right, and if not, what are your suggestions?

I based it off a regular dragons profile.

F/9 S/9 D/10 A/5 W/10 C/6
Might: 4 Will: 5 Fate: 3

650 pts


Thats mostly +1 to a regular dragon on every stat attacks are same courage and Strength are more than one higher

I made his fight higher because he should not tie with Beorn or any other infantry or cavalry esque character..... His strength literally is enough to knock down some of the finest built halls in middle earth apparently, and in terms of batter points it should be higher as well.
His defense is something they talk about constantly thats why they only have like one way to stop him....the one scale.

With D 10, he'd be the highest in the game, which he needs to be. What creature in middle earth has higher defense?
As for wounds, if the Balrog can take 10, I think Smaug should and furthemore again Smaug should have more than some regular dragon.


M/w/f changed. His intellect is probably very superior to that of a regular dragon in terms of the will, and of course hes mightier. Fate is fair I believe.

Then of course he has :
Ancient Evil, Terror, Resistant to Magic, Fly, Breathe Fire, Wormtongue, and Tough Hide.

Transfix: 2+
Compel: 3+
Sap Will: 4+

Furthemore, I think possibly an extreme couple of special rules:

Loose Armor: Every time Smaug the Terrible takes 2 wounds from enemy bowfire in the same round, he loses double the final result of wounds taken by bowfire. Those wounds can be avoided by fate as normal.
No Loyalties: Smaug only loves gold and cannot be swayed by living creatures. Smaug must deploy first, at least 12" from the center of the board, and every model must deploy at least 12" from Smaug.

I dont know....I just pulled this one outta my.....hat......pretty quickly.

But hes a dragon thats beefed up a lot, has better intellect and skill with special rules, and has a very specific rule that can damage him.

Regardless, hes almost unkillable but beatable scenario wise.

Hes cheap enough to be put with a bunch of orcs(how fun). Also though, for his cost you can get plenty of good troops in to counter him and he cannot really win any of the book scenarios alone so its a point cost for very specific game.

_________________
BLACKHAWK 2010 2013 2015 DYNASTY

Good concise profile! I believe Smaug deserves this profile however in gaming turns this would be unstoppable. Smaug and a goblin horde would be auto win in a 1000 point game.... 10 Wounds, Defence 10 and 5 Fate wow and in combat he would never loose anyway with Fight 9 and 4 might. It make him game compatible he may need to be nerfed unfortunately :/ but play test him because I am interested in how it goes!

I have an interesting idea for another rule to tie in with the missing scale thing.
Lucky Shot: If a wound is caused by a ranged weapon, roll a D6 and on a 6 (might cannot be used to alter this), 5 wounds are instead inflicted on Smaug.

Symbolises the arrow/bolt/spear hitting his vulnerable spot. To even cause a wound via range would require 6/6 to wound most of the time followed by another 6. Its highly unlikely but certainly adds a fun element.

_________________
Go The Glorf!
My W.I.P - viewtopic.php?f=50&t=28062

I dislike the amount of fate. It doesn't fit a character that dies so quickly

_________________
Commission Painting @FB http://www.facebook.com/squyrepainting
Commission Customers include:
GBHL Youtube Channel
MiniWargaming

Also (and this is a problem with the game) Smaug shouldn't be more powerful than Sauron, comparatively Sauron's piece is far too weak in-game

_________________
Commission Painting @FB http://www.facebook.com/squyrepainting
Commission Customers include:
GBHL Youtube Channel
MiniWargaming

Or the Balrog. Considering that the Balrog destroyed the most powerful dwarf kingdom ever and took another Maiar to finally put an end to it, I don't really think Smaug should be more potent than it.

Although that's not a knock against your work here - it's pretty good and fittingly impressive. It's more an observation on GW trying to shoehorn in massive, world ending horrors and monsters into a skirmish game. It technically shouldn't happen, but I think most people are willing to overlook it because if we couldn't take Sauron, The Balrog or Smaug, we'd probably be upset. It does pose problems with trying to get these beings into a nice balance between being as powerful as they ought to be, and being usable game pieces.

The ideal solution could be a re-appraisal of the Balrog and Sauron (the game was pretty young when they were introduced, and has since become something a bit different). Adding some unique spells and special rules to the Balrog could work to give him a buff, tone down your Smaug slightly (tone down might will and fate, perhaps give him a special rule like Sauron with the Ring to represent his unique vulnerability), and justify Sauron by saying that his main power is away from the battlefield, and thus difficult to represent in the game. Not sure.

I wonder which way the official profile will lean.

I wouldnt make him better than a Balrog cause hes not

Perhaps you can give him the stats of a normal dragon +1

F/8 S/8 D/9 A/4 W/9 C/6 3*/5/3


all remain dragon upgrades:
And dont give ancient evil cause hes not that, ancient evil are just ment for spirits /maiar as you noticed, hes harbinger of evil.

He dont seem an impressive profile but keep in mind a dragon with most of his stats all 7s its mighty enough.... people just got a bad habbit with heroic strikes makes them useless of a sort...


About that chest wound perhaps you shouldn´t complicate too much the rule, maybe if you wound him he takes 2 wounds rather than 1. (period) just because an arrow got a luck shoot on him doesnt mean in melee with some luck you couldnt afford same luck and thrusting a sword or an hammer just on that spot...

Since all this is so hipotetical, you cannot say smaug is better than any other dragon since we´ve never seen other dragons on lotr reacting to compare, to me smaug is just a big regular dragon that survived more years than others and so grown up bigger and meanner (making himself a survivor, hence the slightly better profile)

A 8 value stat guy its pretty decent so far and although for example its sad that beorn can match him for example but all being so hipotecically we cannot expect what actually could happen since a gondor captain with some luck can kick beorn rear like a more potant guy like sauron...

I feel he should be at least Defense 10... and he could be better than the Balrog... lets not forget that the Balrogs were tossed like "chaff before the wind" when they fought the Host of Valinor, and it was only when Morgoth released the Winged Dragons that the forces of evil gained some ground.

_________________
"A king is he that can hold his own, or else his title is vain." - Maedhros

dragons... which smaug is a wyvern, look how he walks, he got 2 legs not 4 solid legs...~

And Valinor were more than regular soldiers and balrog were few, morgoth had an army of dragons... no wonder they needed them all for that fight... dont compared hundred of fire dragons to a bit more of a dozen balrogs...

not to mention what is a wyvern from the 2nd age compared to a corrupted maiar of the 1st age.

So likewise, no, Smaug couldnt best the Balrog...

Yeah maybe either tone him down or make him cost 750? Him and still a 2.5 warbands of goblins would have a hard time at 1000 winning any points match game.

And I like your rule better. Its more concise! Good idea.




He lives through Erebor and Dale then he finally dies at laketown. Thats what I figured.




Well I dont ever see a regular soldier hurting Smaug or Sauron. Just heros. On the other hand Beorn seems much more mortal..

As for Smaug being better than other dragons....I think he undeniably is otherwise why dont we have the other dragons being written about in such a way or people talking of them in middle earth?

_________________
BLACKHAWK 2010 2013 2015 DYNASTY

Smaug was one of the last remaining Great Dragons... there is a quote somewhere of Gandalf mentioning that he and a few others had fire hot enough to MELT THE ONE RING!!!

And he is only a Wyvern in looks... everyone calls him a dragon because he is... Not sure what Weta was thinking should have kept him like this
http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb2014 ... 22_23Z.jpg

_________________
"A king is he that can hold his own, or else his title is vain." - Maedhros

one of the weakest thats why he fleed north while having other big dragons around :P

I do like smaug the way it looks and im sure of 1 thing... will be miracle to pop a smaug model out from gw

So if Smaug had just roasted Bilbo while he had the chance, we wouldn't have had all that trouble 60 years later?
Smaug is a dragon, he's referred to throughout the books and films as a dragon, and, i'm sorry, but Smaug is emphatically NOT a weaker dragon. He came south because he was chasing treasure, he wasn't chased out.
sorry for getting off topic a little.

_________________

When I use Smaug, I use a basic dragon profile, but with all four of the optional upgrades (Fly, Breathe Fire, Wyrmtongue, and Tough Hide).

_________________
See my WIP thread here. viewtopic.php?f=50&t=25624