This is true.
Just want to clarify I don't dislike the new profiles, I think they're cool and add some unique elements but I do think they're OP in anything but an all hero army

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To clarify even further

I have used several new profiles in normal armies and they don't break the game. Thorin was bogged down for 6/7 turns against goblins and Thranduil was stuck for half a game against Gundabads. If anything, the new bilbo profile is the best as his mithril coat makes him invincible! the sneaky hobbit hasnt even taken a wound yet from 3 1000pt games.
Haven't built Dwalin yet but he is next on the testing table, along with the new WC profiles.

If anyone is going to be OP and break the game it'll be Radagast on Eagle.

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There are two very different things going on here.

The first is whether (some of) the new profiles are too strong in comparison to other rules, thematically. E.g. Thranduil shouldn't have more attacks than [...], why is Legolas' Fight value higher in these rules than for his LotR profile, why are there so many special rules for a reasonably ordinary figure such as [...] while the older LotR rules only gave 1-2 special rules at best, etc. I can agree with some of those statements, and feel it is a pity that certain characters or armies are not well represented anymore. This, however, is of limited consequence for the game as a whole, where it is mostly the balance that should be considered.

From that point of view, the new additions may be better than the previous versions or figures, but as long as they also are costed appropriately, there is no major issue. According to the first angle, Bolg is stupdily strong for some Orc - but when looking from the second angle, that is no problem as he's also really quite expensive. Even when a figure may seem too strong from the second point of view, I'd rather wait a while and see if fears of unbalancing are justified: take those Mirkwood Rangers, costing exactly the same as an ordinary Wood Elf Warrior with Elf bow and Elven cloak - but getting a strong special rule for free. Oh, and a 100% bow limit in 99.9% of the armies. Insane. But they haven't been dominating the tournament scene from what I've heard. Turns out a 14pts D3 elf is also a very squishy target (and 5pts for an Elven cloak on a warrior is a terrible valuation, which maybe isn't very surprising either).

The only new addition that looks to have improved much for little/no cost is the new Galadriel (compared to the previous White Council version), and seeing how she then basically replaces herself, that's hardly an issue.
All other new guys have gotten better for a decent increase in points, and whether those two increases are somewhat fair, well, I'd rather judge that after playing a few dozen games.

That's pretty cool. What happens if there's a Legolas in one force and Thorin in the other? Or does that rule not apply. I've never seen a rule like this that could influence models on two different sides, but I suppose good isn't supposed to fight good.

I completely agree with this post. I remember the raging when the Ranger was released. Everyone said it was OP when they saw the stats...now no one complains about it. The same was said for The Goblin King and Tom Bombadil when they came out too. I imagine this will be the same case for Thranduil and Bolg as well. Overtime everyone will realize it is an overreaction to something on paper.

Lol for the record there is one post where someone suggested Galadriel may be OP. Which heroes are we discussing then? Just legolas, thranduril and saruman, maybe elrond? Azog and Bolg are hardly new.

To perhaps clarify my stance on the new supplement I don't think anything is overly unbalanced after having a good look through them. The Company, The white council, laketown, mirkwood, the orcs all look good to me.
I'm not sure about smaug yet but from the look of it his profile certainly seems appropriate to me.
In fact I think everything in that book represents the portrayal in the film very well. If there is a problem with the abundance of F7, extra special rules or abilities or everything just being plain more powerful than during the war of the ring then it's a problem that started with the big hobbit rulebook, what has followed is just staying in line with what has all ready happened. Otherwise people would be complaining that this supplement was completely lack lustre.

Thranduril looked pretty epic on paper but so did Mirkwood elves before field testing.
I think Radagast on eagle will be fun to use but losing his staff of power helps balance the model overall.
Thorin's combat ability is nice but not broken given he costs the same as Dain or two shield bearers and his other abilities only apply in certain circumstances or when he's with the company.
Saruman has got a lot better magic wise but is still vulnerable to the usual things including ringwraiths, he may get to re-roll against sap will but its still will points to defend with rather than attack with, resistance to magic only kicks in when he's out (assuming he's not with Galadriel but by then you have so many pts in heroes you may as well go full white council)
Elrond, well I've not heard anyone complain about him being overpowered after spending 180pts on him. He gets a free heroic strike (loved him in the latest film btw) but he cant lead elves, can't be mounted and still costs more than just about any other hero in the council.
As Southern Dunedain has said, I think its Bilbo that will be the sly surprise, 3 might with the ring and much higher defence. Really think he'll do well in future games.

I haven't tested any of these yet but am so very excited about getting them painted and on the table top, I wasn't even this excited about the company when their rules were originally released.

Fantastic post GC^I agree.



The way I see it Legolas was at his prime of combat in his life at this point. Elves are supposed to be better combatants than men. Aragorn at this best was skilled at fight 6, and Legolas at his best fight 7. Not disagreeing just a theory I can accept.

2-Thranduil should have max 3 attacks. 4 is a bit much to me.

3-Elrond isnt the best fighter, but he is very heroic. Hence the free heroic action every turn. Sometimes though, he might roll a 1 or 2. And not so heroic haha.


Thorin and Dwalin are amazing models for their points but they cant lead warbands. That in itself means youre going to have to spend an extra cost of another hero to have basic warriors. It works itself out.



That would make them less heroic. You really mean to tell me youd prefer where an army has thorins company against 100 goblins?

They did away with those rules for a reason. Warbands I believe should let more heroic people such as Aragorn lead up to like 25 troops, nut a regular moria gobling captain should stay at 12 or maybe 10.



Theres a reason why warriors of minis tirith, gondor, original high elves, original warriors of many sorts sell for nothing on ebay. Because theyre boring.

Why else would Mirkwood Rangers and others be sold for so much from their value considering how long theyve been out.




That is my feeling exactly.



I made this point before so Ill keep it short. Fight value isnt just a master of skill with a blade. Its total combat prowess including size.

If you take a skilled ufc fighter/boxer/street fighter whos 6'0" 200 lbs against a less talented guy whos 6' 4" 215 hes at a disadvantage. That makes up the 1 fight. We all have seen Bolg and Azogs size and you cant tell me that doesnt add to them having a better chance in combat.




Extremely true. I had a harder time killing them with half trolls than I did with regular haradrim bowmen. I destroyed them with harad.



At that point ocrist or both of them so to speak would cancel each other out because the rule doesnt affect any good armies. Total white wash.

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BLACKHAWK 2010 2013 2015 DYNASTY

I'm actually pretty happy with all of them barring Saruman thanks to his re-rolls and (potentially) Radagast (though I'm not 100% on that yet; I think a Ringwraith or another wizard would sort him out pretty rapidly, to be quite honest. Might be a little undercosted, though?).

A bit irritated that Galadriel still is only S3, too. Besides that? The heroes are all strong, but they're also exceedingly expensive. Between Thranduil and a Troll Chieftain... well, I like to think Thranduil wouldn't stand up well to a little bit of Rending.

To be fair most units period don't fare well against rending....

Radagast should be fine. He costs what something over 200? And he only has 6 will. I've seen a game before where someone played me with Elrong and Arwen and didn't pull off one natures wrath.......

He will probably be good to pull off a couple of spells if there's no magic in the other army.....but then after he's pretty much just an enhanced eagle.

And the new Saruman does seem way strong. I'd just sorcerous blast every round hahaha.

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BLACKHAWK 2010 2013 2015 DYNASTY

thranduil should have 4 attacks because he has two weapons however his extra attacks are a bit over the top.

legolas should be fight 7 and three attacks, in the films, he attacks qiucker than aragorn and with more skill, however aragorn is still better imo because of more might and higher defence.

elrond is probably op, considering he is only 5pts more than aragorn and if aragorn is in combat with a hero he probably will be heroic striking using his free point of might, meaning elronds special rule is almost as good as aragorns yet elrond has spells, an elven blade and heavy armour

also heroes being overpowered does not mean their rules are good. most responses i have heard to the new supplement have been "they are great rules thranduil gets 4 attacks basic" or "the new saruman is a beast". Heroes being underpointed means anyone who uses them gets an unfair advantage over someone who is playing another army that they did not pick simply because it is powerful rules should be balanced so everything is just as competitive.

having had that rant i dont think any of the new models are overpowered so it doesnt really matter

also bard has a bow in the film at the botfa but that is just me being pedantic