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 Post subject: Re: Hobbit pre-orders on 22nd November
PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2014 5:48 pm 
Ringwraith
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Very disappointed. That's all I am saying. :(

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 Post subject: Re: Hobbit pre-orders on 22nd November
PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2014 6:10 pm 
Loremaster
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I'm looking forward to Legolas foot and mounted, as I didnt get a chance to get the old one, but unless Thranduil has a new profile, I'll probably just leave it at that.
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 Post subject: Re: Hobbit pre-orders on 22nd November
PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2014 6:31 pm 
Elven Warrior
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Part of the issue is that, well, if you want to play the game, you have to buy the models. Which means if you can't justify the way beyond inflation price rises on the models, you can't play the game.

You can still find some cheaper older models, you can still play old armies, but even there the current edition of the game wants newer and more expensive things. Hell, if you were (like me) foolishly invest in WOTR armies, you'll find that with the current rules, you'd need a bunch of captains and so on to use your older army. Captains which are no longer available, or only available on finecast.

A significant portion of this community relies on GW facilities to play the game, which means they must use rule-legal armies and GW only.

Playing the game means buying the models. If sufficient people can't or won't buy the models, there's no more game.

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 Post subject: Re: Hobbit pre-orders on 22nd November
PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2014 6:42 pm 
Loremaster
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Creaky wrote:
LordoftheBrownRing wrote:
I understand your stance on them but I can almost guarantee without any statistical backup they'd make more money if they released plastic sets of ten instead of fine cast.


You would hope so, but if, following their data from the sales of the plastic kits for AUJ, they can determine that the (huge, and upfront) cost of manufacturing plastic kits is unlikely to return a profit by the time their license expires, it might well be the better business decision to finecast everything than risk making a loss on a kit that might not sell well enough to justify it's expense. It's not like with 40k where they can produce a squad of plastic minis for whatever faction and let it sit around for a decade or more before they replace it - all but guaranteeing it becomes profitable. If GW has decided that it's better for their brand to can SBG when the licenses expire, then that puts a finite shelf life on the product - not a good thing if it has large upfront costs.

(It's for similar reasons I'd be dissapointed to see NO plastic of any kind, too. We know the Laketown sets were fully tooled, with at least some produced, so maybe some other kits got as far as steel mould production before the decision was made to cease plastic development. If we truly end up with no plastic, then that's actually really weird - 90% of the costs are in the development and tooling, you'd think they'd want to recoup as much as possible before the end.)

I share your view on the Elves, though. "Elves are overdone?" Nonsense, Middle Earth without the woodland realm would be a horribly incomplete place. Just because other fantasy settings can't do something other than iterate on Tolkien isn't his fault.


Man.....lol....on paper it looks like the better decision. If you live in reality, look at the community and see the costs of finecast. Look at the people willing to buy plastic kits as opposed to finecast 3 piece [word deleted].

If you think Lord of the Rings wont sit on the shelf a decade and still be bought, youre mad.

People, even with the Hobbit releases, Creaky, are buying original Lord of the Rings releases! The Lord of the Rings has a more dedicated following than 40k ever will. This community is as passionate as you can get. If they made plastic kits of Elves at the Battle of Five armies people would buy them in December 2014, and they would buy them in December 2024. Its Tolkein. Theyre pushing us away because the contract giving them the rights ends soon. And they dont want to pay for it again.

I know, and ive talked to....maybe not a lot of people....somewhere between 15-30 people. Theyve said they will not buy 1 penny worth of finecast 3 packs, but would buy from 1-5 or so boxes of plastics. That alone guarantees hundreds of dollars worth of money for GW.

Personally, had they made laketown and Gundabads, and now, BOTFA elves in plastic packs....I would have spent at least $500 on those armies. Thats one person. Gw have killed themselves with their decisions. If you want to disagree, youre misinformed.

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 Post subject: Re: Hobbit pre-orders on 22nd November
PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2014 7:00 pm 
Elven Elder
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aelfwine wrote:
Part of the issue is that, well, if you want to play the game, you have to buy the models...........
A significant portion of this community relies on GW facilities to play the game, which means they must use rule-legal armies and GW only.

Playing the game means buying the models. If sufficient people can't or won't buy the models, there's no more game.


That is the problem with tying yourself to GW. I am a Tolkien fan not a GW fan. It would be nice if GW would make something for me to buy. I am absolutely not going to put myself into a position to depend GW for anything.They are not going to make me buy what they want to sell with a new rulebook or an official tournament.If I want it I will buy if not :roll:

No Fine Cast ever!

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 Post subject: Re: Hobbit pre-orders on 22nd November
PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2014 8:12 pm 
Kinsman
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Very nice sculpts! Would likely have bought the elf infantry if they were plastic (and thus more reasonably priced).

Tauriel and Legolas look really good, but for me personally not enough to warrant the extra money since I already own previous versions.

Thranduil however looks absolutely stunning! I'll probably buy that product if the price isn't too terrible (who am I kidding, of course it will be terrible :p ). He could very well proxy as an elf lord from the First Age or something. For that use I think it's actually a good thing he's on a horse, though an elk would of course have been cool too.

I'd say this is quite a substantial first wave of releases, this news certainly has made me more optimistic about the future releases tied to the new film. :yay: I just hope we'll see a Smaug figure getting a release before this is all over.

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 Post subject: Re: Hobbit pre-orders on 22nd November
PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2014 8:59 pm 
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Yeah, if they were plastic I would buy a lot of them too. That is why this is such a sad thread. Cause many of us will not or cannot buy all the models we want to play the game, thus boost sales, thus gain GW attention and support, thus producing more models, etc. etc.. So I am happy to see the new models coming out and they look good, but I am indeed sad from reading how many will not enjoy them, thus the nails in the Hobbit coffin are set.
Plastic sets back when they were $25 a box were no selling for LOTR and can be read in the yearly investment letters. To then say that plastics for the Hobbit would sell for ten years is opposite of evidence of the past more popular line. So if we could not buy lots of boxes back when they were cheap to keep the hobby going, then why would plastics be worth it to them now?

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 Post subject: Re: Hobbit pre-orders on 22nd November
PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2014 10:13 pm 
Elven Elder
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Voyager360 wrote:
SNIP


Thranduil is £27.

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 Post subject: Re: Hobbit pre-orders on 22nd November
PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2014 5:09 am 
Craftsman
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I didn't notice before that Thranduil is using/fighting with two swords in the trailer, so GW got that right.

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 Post subject: Re: Hobbit pre-orders on 22nd November
PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2014 9:42 am 
Kinsman
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I hope I am wrong, but based on the fact that GW were not aware Thranduil was supposed to be on an Elk then I wouldn't be surprised if the Dwarf Ram Cavalry were also something that they failed to know about in time. I'm pretty sure the first we knew of this was the teaser trailer. I was expecting boars until then. At least we know Dain will be on a Boar. Hope the Rams have been made though as they are sure to look great.
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 Post subject: Re: Hobbit pre-orders on 22nd November
PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2014 12:14 pm 
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Dark Istari wrote:
I hope I am wrong, but based on the fact that GW were not aware Thranduil was supposed to be on an Elk then I wouldn't be surprised if the Dwarf Ram Cavalry were also something that they failed to know about in time. I'm pretty sure the first we knew of this was the teaser trailer. I was expecting boars until then. At least we know Dain will be on a Boar. Hope the Rams have been made though as they are sure to look great.



This is what´s called putting the cart before the horse, and gw doing it just fine for this entire hobbit range collection (since its first came out on the production with "bolg") :shock:
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 Post subject: Re: Hobbit pre-orders on 22nd November
PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2014 1:12 pm 
Ringwraith
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There is some hope we’ll get a FoTFA supplement. It’s mentioned in the new Hobbit FAQs, although it may be referring to the rumoured White Dwarf supplement.

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Models that feature in army lists from either The Hobbit: An Unexpected JourneyTM, The Hobbit: The Desolation of SmaugTM or The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five ArmiesTM can only use options and wargear shown in the The Hobbit: An Unexpected JourneyTM, The Hobbit: The Desolation of SmaugTM or The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five ArmiesTM
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 Post subject: Re: Hobbit pre-orders on 22nd November
PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2014 7:28 pm 
Craftsman
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Models up.


At least they're not limited - no way I can afford to do that again next week. (£300!!! Merry Christmas to me, I suppose.) The other releases will have to be bought in parts over the next few months.
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 Post subject: Re: Hobbit pre-orders on 22nd November
PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2014 7:57 pm 
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Never expected to be able to say this but.. those cavalry aren't too badly priced actually.
€25 for two is only a marginally more expensive than comparative metal figures (which are 11.50 for one). Again, never expected to say this but.. I feel like ordering some.
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 Post subject: Re: Hobbit pre-orders on 22nd November
PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2014 8:44 pm 
Kinsman
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Lol this is horrible. On the actual pics on the website they look worse than on the leaked pictures. The paintjobs are absolutely Devlan Mud. And I like the models much less than when I saw the leaked pictures. No Hobbit for me it seems.
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 Post subject: Re: Hobbit pre-orders on 22nd November
PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2014 9:19 pm 
Ringwraith
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are they limited availability or not? I can't see anything stating this but i know it was rumoured.

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 Post subject: Re: Hobbit pre-orders on 22nd November
PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2014 9:19 pm 
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ive orderd them, whilst the paintjobs dont really appeal..alot of improvements can be made with a proper paintjob
dont know why they didnt follow the golden look like they are in the movies..instead of the brown n silver they are on site
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 Post subject: Re: Hobbit pre-orders on 22nd November
PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2014 9:29 pm 
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Hmm... On closer inspection, that Thranduil mini seems a little off - the faces on both foot and mounted are very odd and don't seem to look anything like Lee Pace. However, this may well just be the paint-job and where the shading has been accentuated on the figure. Tauriel is also a little weird although I definitely think it's the paint-job this time...

The regular troops are great though (including the captain), as are the cavalry which look absolutely brilliant! As Coenus said, the prices for the Mirkwood Knights are actually pretty reasonable (all things considered)

As for Legolas, I have to say I think both foot and mounted are really nice miniatures - would make for very nice display pieces IMO.

I'd say this is very much the main release for Mirkwood Elves and we won't be getting any other Elf-related stuff except perhaps Thranduil on Elk. I'm very much looking forward to the Men & Dwarves release. I would highly doubt Finecast troops for the Men release (just a hunch) because, of what I've seen of the men fighting at TBotFA, they're a very rag-tag group made up of what's left of Laketown (kinda like the "Warriors of Erebor" we got last year) and the Finecast troop releases seem to have only come when the troops are uniformed and quite generic with not too much variety in the actual movie (Laketown Guard, Gundabads and now Elves).

In terms of what I'd like to see in the coming weeks (apart from Smaug obviously), I'd really like the Laketown scenery. It looked awesome in that showcase video several months ago of the previous Laketown release and would make for some excellent display pieces/dioramas.

All in all, I think it's a very good release. I will probably be getting most of these but I'm going to wait a bit for the other releases so I can think up a purchasing plan of sorts with a fuller-picture in mind.

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 Post subject: Re: Hobbit pre-orders on 22nd November
PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2014 9:33 pm 
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I wondered that too. Seeing as how the elves we've seen so far are digital (with those awful CG faces that really mustn't be finished), perhaps they cg'd over the originals - the set photos of the elven army props are fairly close to these in terms of colours...

I think I may wait until the movie comes out before I paint mine - don't want to paint them gold and then find out it was just unfinished renders or something. Or paint them brown and silver and then find out they've been azoged to gold.


I still hold out hope that we'll get some plastic for this release, but it is now just a faint one, sadly. The laketown set in particular, since there's no good reason not to release it - speaking of which, in the WD images it looked like there was another plastic ruins set behind the Elves. Not the gondor set, it looked Daleish. God knows what's going on at GW towers.
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 Post subject: Re: Hobbit pre-orders on 22nd November
PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2014 10:25 pm 
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That captain model is stunning. Maybe the best miniature in the range. Might be getting that even if I don't get anything else.
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