The One Ring :: View topic - Iron Hills Dwarves

PS: also keep in mind that the Desolation of Smaug and the Hobbit Rulebook were actual complete books. This is just a white dwarf update. Therefore we can expect more updates before the Battle of Five armies book comes out

legion wrote:

What makes you think the White Dwarf supplement wasn't the Battle of Five Armies book?

It's virtually identical to DoS, right down to a UPC code on the back (which bundled supplements don't need) and calling itself an expansion in the introduction:

"Welcome to The Hobbit: Desolation of Smaug. This is an expansion for the Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey Strategy Battle Game..."

"Welcome to The Hobbit: Battle of Five Armies. This is an expansion for the Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey Strategy Battle Game..."

The only major difference between the two is the lack of BoFA content - gallery, extra scenarios, etc, however looking at the page count - 32vs64 - it's fairly evident that at some point when they decided not to release it as a perfect bound book, they cut content so they could fit it on a pair of A1 sized sheets (or 1 A0)(plus cover) instead of the 4 (or 2) sheets DoS took in order to reduce print and bindery costs.

It is certainly possible that this is the final supplement and that you are correct. Many things about this release seem to confirm that this is all that is left, including what you have mentioned. However, Games Workshop is contractually obligated to produce models every year....so you tell me, if the iron hills dwarves are not coming out, what will GW do to avoid a lawsuit...

Where was it confirmed that GW is contractually obligated to produce models or face a lawsuit?

but this can be supported by evaluating GW's behavior with their releases despite the game supposedly creating a loss for them. Why continue to produce miniatures for a line that even the CEO's of Games workshop have hinted is ending in 2016? There must be some obligation to do so.

You cannot compare current finecast blister with previous metal models why?
Because GW always made the decision of metal/finecast would be at most specialist weapons or elite kind of soldiers or characters, not the base core.

isengard:
core: uruk warriors /orc warriors = plastic boxes
elite/specialist weapons: crossbows, berserkers, ferals

Gondor:
core: minas tirith warriors, rangers = plastic boxes^
elite/specialist: fountain guard, citadel, trebuchet

Moria:
core= goblin warriors, wild wargs
elite/specialists: cave troll, prowlers, spiders, dragon

Author:	DwarfWarrior [ Tue Dec 23, 2014 7:37 pm ]
Post subject:	Iron Hills Dwarves
Does anyone know if or when they are being released??

Author:	legion [ Tue Dec 23, 2014 7:49 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Iron Hills Dwarves
No one is completely sure but the major rumor is that they will be released in clampacks. To be honest, I see no reason why they wouldnt be released. They probably were held off for christmas since GW released so many other models

Author:	DwarfWarrior [ Tue Dec 23, 2014 8:11 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Iron Hills Dwarves
good, i wasn't sure because they aren't in the army lists

Author:	legion [ Tue Dec 23, 2014 8:29 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Iron Hills Dwarves
Yeah everyone expected them to be there because the Desolation of Smaug had a complete list for the year. So the confusion and panic is understood. I think this is also GW's way of fulfilling thier license agreement. They are contractually obligated to produce so many models a year. If they save them for next year, then they can better meet this requirement PS: also keep in mind that the Desolation of Smaug and the Hobbit Rulebook were actual complete books. This is just a white dwarf update. Therefore we can expect more updates before the Battle of Five armies book comes out

Author:	IntLemon [ Tue Dec 23, 2014 8:40 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Iron Hills Dwarves
If you're super impatient you could always try converting the grimhammer dwarves into spear/shield wielding Iron Hill dwarves. If they do end up being clam packs I might just buy some grimhammers and give them plasticard spears and shields, with some greenstuff to make the spearheads. The armour is mostly the same, I think. If you have understanding gaming partners you could even proxy them as normal spear/shield erebor dwarves. I'm more into the collecting side of things though, so it grimhammers with spears shouldn't be a problem for me. Welp, this sure went off on a tangent.

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Iron Hills Dwarves https://ww.one-ring.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=30021	Page 1 of 3

Author:	Galanur [ Tue Dec 23, 2014 9:20 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Iron Hills Dwarves
http://s920.photobucket.com/user/franci ... 0.jpg.html ____________________________________________________________ for this get: erebor dwarves box (pick the spears) grimhammer box (give em the spears) get shields from this or ask on trade, empire players normally got plenty remove the heraldry plastic parts of those shields/cut 2 edges to make em 90º on the lower half and voilá there´s your ironhill dwarves

Author:	Michaelc [ Tue Dec 23, 2014 9:32 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Iron Hills Dwarves
legion wrote: PS: also keep in mind that the Desolation of Smaug and the Hobbit Rulebook were actual complete books. This is just a white dwarf update. Therefore we can expect more updates before the Battle of Five armies book comes out What makes you think the White Dwarf supplement wasn't the Battle of Five Armies book? It's virtually identical to DoS, right down to a UPC code on the back (which bundled supplements don't need) and calling itself an expansion in the introduction: "Welcome to The Hobbit: Desolation of Smaug. This is an expansion for the Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey Strategy Battle Game..." "Welcome to The Hobbit: Battle of Five Armies. This is an expansion for the Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey Strategy Battle Game..." The only major difference between the two is the lack of BoFA content - gallery, extra scenarios, etc, however looking at the page count - 32vs64 - it's fairly evident that at some point when they decided not to release it as a perfect bound book, they cut content so they could fit it on a pair of A1 sized sheets (or 1 A0)(plus cover) instead of the 4 (or 2) sheets DoS took in order to reduce print and bindery costs.

Author:	Wise Old Elf [ Tue Dec 23, 2014 11:17 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Iron Hills Dwarves
From what I've heard, we'll be getting a clampack of Dain Mounted and on Foot, alongside three clampacks of Dwarf warriors (3 with double-headed axes, 3 with pike and shield, and 2 goat-mounted pikemen). In my opinion you'll be better off converting Grimhammers though. Let's face it the only difference to the two armies is slightly different colouring and different designs for the shields and helmets. Should be a fairly simple process. Plus, you get 12 plastic Dwarves for £20, as opposed to 3 for £15.

Author:	rumtap [ Wed Dec 24, 2014 12:36 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Iron Hills Dwarves
I really hope you're wrong Wise Old Elf but my gut says you're right. I was very much looking forward to getting some plastic mounted dwarves but once the BOTFA releases started to come out all in finecast, well part of me died a little.

Author:	legion [ Wed Dec 24, 2014 1:58 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Iron Hills Dwarves
Michaelc wrote: legion wrote: PS: also keep in mind that the Desolation of Smaug and the Hobbit Rulebook were actual complete books. This is just a white dwarf update. Therefore we can expect more updates before the Battle of Five armies book comes out What makes you think the White Dwarf supplement wasn't the Battle of Five Armies book? It's virtually identical to DoS, right down to a UPC code on the back (which bundled supplements don't need) and calling itself an expansion in the introduction: "Welcome to The Hobbit: Desolation of Smaug. This is an expansion for the Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey Strategy Battle Game..." "Welcome to The Hobbit: Battle of Five Armies. This is an expansion for the Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey Strategy Battle Game..." The only major difference between the two is the lack of BoFA content - gallery, extra scenarios, etc, however looking at the page count - 32vs64 - it's fairly evident that at some point when they decided not to release it as a perfect bound book, they cut content so they could fit it on a pair of A1 sized sheets (or 1 A0)(plus cover) instead of the 4 (or 2) sheets DoS took in order to reduce print and bindery costs. It is certainly possible that this is the final supplement and that you are correct. Many things about this release seem to confirm that this is all that is left, including what you have mentioned. However, Games Workshop is contractually obligated to produce models every year....so you tell me, if the iron hills dwarves are not coming out, what will GW do to avoid a lawsuit...

Author:	Michaelc [ Wed Dec 24, 2014 4:43 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Iron Hills Dwarves
legion wrote: It is certainly possible that this is the final supplement and that you are correct. Many things about this release seem to confirm that this is all that is left, including what you have mentioned. However, Games Workshop is contractually obligated to produce models every year....so you tell me, if the iron hills dwarves are not coming out, what will GW do to avoid a lawsuit... I made no judgement as to whether or not the dwarves or any other model will be released, only that if they are it is unlikely they will be included in the BoFAs book as IMO that is already here. As I mentioned in the other thread it's possible they may be saved for the rumoured mass combat supplement. (although in that case why weren't the elves, orcs, and men saved as well) Or they may simply be released with WD rules. Or they may have been canned altogether following AUJ. Where was it confirmed that GW is contractually obligated to produce models or face a lawsuit?

Author:	LordoftheBrownRing [ Wed Dec 24, 2014 12:48 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Iron Hills Dwarves
All I really have to say is if they are released they will probably be gorgeous and make me want to buy them. Fans like me Games Workshop if you're scouting the forums....which you are....I hope the release is asap so I can pick what I want to buy. I don't know how fast GW can change the stats but I know the sculpts can't be changed. So make their stats worth buying GW.

Author:	legion [ Wed Dec 24, 2014 4:40 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Iron Hills Dwarves
Michaelc wrote: Where was it confirmed that GW is contractually obligated to produce models or face a lawsuit? Unfortunately I dont have a copy of the contract, so it is impossible for me to actually prove this obligation, however my sources are GW managers and HQ employees. I will not say names of these people for obvious reasons, but this can be supported by evaluating GW's behavior with their releases despite the game supposedly creating a loss for them. Why continue to produce miniatures for a line that even the CEO's of Games workshop have hinted is ending in 2016? There must be some obligation to do so.

Author:	Michaelc [ Wed Dec 24, 2014 7:20 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Iron Hills Dwarves
legion wrote: but this can be supported by evaluating GW's behavior with their releases despite the game supposedly creating a loss for them. Why continue to produce miniatures for a line that even the CEO's of Games workshop have hinted is ending in 2016? There must be some obligation to do so. Or POSSIBLY just good business sense. If a movie is released in theaters and it bombs, 99% of the time it will still be made available on DVD. Why? Because DVDs are ridiculously cheap to manufacture. Even sold in the bargain bin they make money. A lot of money? Probably not but if your movie suffered a $20 million loss at the box office and you eventually recover $10million in DVD sales it's still worth the effort. With the Hobbit - again speculation - but much of the cost - licencing, AUJ plastic tooling and (over)production, design, etc - was likely spent before release. GW MIGHT not recover that initial investment to make the range profitable (or at least sufficiently to justify continuing it). HOWEVER that doesn't mean that additional releases, especially in cheap finecast, produced in tightly controlled quantities, sold at ridiculously high prices - can't be individually profitable to help recoup SOME of that investment. Look at Smaug - $100,000 revenue in 25 minutes.

Author:	Sithious [ Fri Dec 26, 2014 2:37 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Iron Hills Dwarves
Yeah, I have been doing this since TTT, so I remember blisters of Elf Shields, Haldirs elves, Weeod elves, Harad Raiders, Easterlings on foot and later on horse, Dol Amroth, Rangers, Warg Riders, Mordor Orcs, Numenorians, Army of the dead,... just so many troops came in blister form. But I do understand that the comparison is not 100% due to a huge quality difference... that and the fact that $25 x 4 blisters of each type is a heck of a big change from $10 x 4 blisters back in the day ($15 for riders). It does hurt, but for whatever reason with me, plastics hurt more. Maybe because I buy plastic in 10,000 lb. increments on the regular and know what it costs and I bill customers for molds all the time from start to completion and know the labor cycles and packaging costs for the most part. The main focus though is that I still think they will release more, and I would not use Finecast choices as any reason to doubt future releases.

Author:	John [ Fri Dec 26, 2014 8:09 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Iron Hills Dwarves
All Sithious is saying is that blister packs have increased more so compartively to plastics. Nothing goofy about that at all - i hadn't noticed and found that quite interesting. Thanks Sithious. Its quite refreshing to read about someone happy to pay for the finecast rather than more moaning.

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Author:	Sithious [ Thu Dec 25, 2014 2:26 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Iron Hills Dwarves
I sure hope they make some more stuff. If not, they did give us a nice ride. I cannot speculate with any accuracy as to what GW will do or what hobbit sales are like. I wonder about any of the plastics they made though if LOTR and Hobbit were not money makers. Look at any of the plastic kits. I bought two of each one except the hero kits. I also bought the finecast captains to match up. Based on the rules system, there is not much reason for anyone to buy more than that. any GW marketing guy could probably tell you the numbers in advance on any kit, 1 or 2 boxes average to each collector, and 1-2 boxes for each for those players that play that army (the x factor). But they made the plastic kits anyway, imagine that. Maybe those numbers are better than we think they are. at my plastic company we could knock out about 1000 sprues in a day of work so 40,000 for a day of work pays a lot of bills. if they are using the same mold base and only making new inserts for the new models, then they are making profit on these, no doubt. They only need to run the mold a couple days and they have all the models they will ever sell. It sounds like GW should have had no trouble making money on these at all. so my speculation is that finecast has nothing to do with sales or production cost. I think finecast is just faster to produce molds of. look at the hunter kit or grimhammer kit, guys are cut up and all over the sprue. finecast is only cut in half or weapons hands off at most and are very simple. Also the way a plastic has to face to allow undercuts and allow the detail to show up is hard work in the engineering dept. but with finecast it is not the case so much. I think with the CGI changes keeping GW from working ahead of time meant they had to work fast, and finecast is the fast way to get production. It also has those benefits of production run control, making less of the ones that are not selling while still making profit over the mold cost. I think/hope we will see a lot more Hobbit in mid spring and they will finish it off for good (thank goodness) by Christmas next year (as for production) and sell for the next year or so until they part ways with the rights. That is my speculation anyway. I have actually made larger forces with the finecast troops than I have with the plastic kits from the hobbit. probably because of this; Plastics 2000 = 24 models for $25 plastics 2014 = 10 models of $40 - 300% markup per model. blisters of troops 2000 = 3 models for $10 Blisters of troops 2014 = 3 models for $25 - 150% markup a blister of troops didn't go up all that much in comparison to the plastics, although the plastics quality has gone up a lot as well. To me buying a a few blisters doesn't hurt of a troop I like, but buying boxes of plastics makes me cringe at the price, way to high for what it is for sure.

Author:	Galanur [ Thu Dec 25, 2014 4:53 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Iron Hills Dwarves
what I know is that I pay 27€ for 12 erebor dwarves/grimhammers and 20€ for 3 finecast models (ALL CORE in army) which means erebor/grimhammers are 2.25€ a model while on finecast im paying 6,6€ a model. You cannot compare current finecast blister with previous metal models why? Because GW always made the decision of metal/finecast would be at most specialist weapons or elite kind of soldiers or characters, not the base core. what annoys to people like me its the price of the current models for core on your army. (not to mention resin quality, which I could afford same or even better quality for almost half the cost). for example: isengard: core: uruk warriors /orc warriors = plastic boxes elite/specialist weapons: crossbows, berserkers, ferals Gondor: core: minas tirith warriors, rangers = plastic boxes^ elite/specialist: fountain guard, citadel, trebuchet Moria: core= goblin warriors, wild wargs elite/specialists: cave troll, prowlers, spiders, dragon Even on erebor of the current we follow the same deal Erebor: Core: erebor dwarves, grimhammers specialists/elites: heroes in this case.

Author:	Michaelc [ Thu Dec 25, 2014 5:25 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Iron Hills Dwarves
Galanur wrote: You cannot compare current finecast blister with previous metal models why? Because GW always made the decision of metal/finecast would be at most specialist weapons or elite kind of soldiers or characters, not the base core. Your statement is flawed. Many "base core" troops were at one time or another metal - the decision to release plastic was down to GWs estimation if potential sales justified the cost of plastic tooling, not some arbitrary elite/core distinction that does not exist in LotRs. Quote: isengard: core: uruk warriors /orc warriors = plastic boxes elite/specialist weapons: crossbows, berserkers, ferals Orcs and Uruk scouts were originally metal for years before plastics were released. Quote: Gondor: core: minas tirith warriors, rangers = plastic boxes^ elite/specialist: fountain guard, citadel, trebuchet Same with Rangers, originally metal Quote: Moria: core= goblin warriors, wild wargs elite/specialists: cave troll, prowlers, spiders, dragon Wargs originally metal Haradrim raiders Easterlings Easterling Horses. Not to mention "core" troops that were never made plastic: Elven Spears Numenorian Spears and Bows Etc. Conversely several kits that by your criteria seem to be "elites" got produced in plastic eventually: Knights of Dol Amroth Morgul Knights Ents Fellbeast Troll Army of the Dead Etc. IMO one of GW's failings with the Hobbit was peaking with support too early. LotRs didn't reach it's height until the epic battles in RotK. AUJ & Desolation of Smaug could/should have been mostly metal/finecast and then release the bulk of the plastics along with an affordable starter set with plastic Iron Hill Dwarfs and Dol Guldor Orcs to coincide with BoFAs.

Author:	LordoftheBrownRing [ Fri Dec 26, 2014 5:00 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Iron Hills Dwarves
Guys were arguing really goofy stuff. Metal or not originally now we get 3 foot soldiers for 25 dollars. If you bought 3 metal orcs for 10-15 its still a hell of a lot cheaper elites or not.