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Azogs Origin
https://ww.one-ring.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=26103		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  wiirgy [ Mon Jun 24, 2013 11:59 am ]
Post subject:  Azogs Origin
From where is Azog, Yazneg and his hunter orcs? Mordor? Moria? or maybe even Uruk-Hai?
Author:  SouthernDunedain [ Mon Jun 24, 2013 12:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Azogs Origin
Well azog was a goblin in a book. I think in the movie they were referred to as northen orcs from Mt Gundabad.
Author:  Dorthonion [ Mon Jun 24, 2013 12:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Azogs Origin
The original book Azog was from Moria - more information here: http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/a/azog.html
Author:  wiirgy [ Mon Jun 24, 2013 12:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Azogs Origin
Right, so in terms of fitting him into an army, should I use Mordor Orcs or Moria Goblins? Anyone else have anymore input on this?
Author:  SouthernDunedain [ Mon Jun 24, 2013 12:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Azogs Origin
well he has his own army list in the Hobbit rulebook which contains himself, bolg, fimbul, Narzug, hunter orcs and fell wargs.
Author:  Fëanor, the mighty elf [ Mon Jun 24, 2013 2:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Azogs Origin
I think that Azog was meant to be an Uruk of Mordor in the books. Why?

First of all, we have this quote:
Quote:
Then Náin stood before the Gate and cried with a great voice: ‘Azog! If you are in come out! Or is the play in the valley too rough?’
Thereupon Azog came forth, and he was a great Orc with a huge iron-clad head, and yet agile and strong. With him came many like him, the fighters of his guard….

We know that Orcs were generally shorter than men, and Azog is referred to as great, like Uruks.

In addition, Sauron had sent his creatures to populate Moria 300 years earlier and this was years after the first Uruks came out of Mordor. Also, Uruks from Mordor are seen in Moria by Gandalf just outside Balin's Tomb.
There are several mentions of Uruks taking command of a group of lesser orcs. In fact, I'm not aware of any orc captain (in the Third Age) that seems to be part of a lesser orc group. Gorbag, Shagrat and Ugluk are all reffered to as large and strong orcs (and orcs is in the books not a specific word as it is in the movies - orcs is the general word and also includes Uruks).

For these reasons, it makes sense to me that Azog, the large commander of the orc armies, was in fact an Uruk in the books.
Author:  wiirgy [ Mon Jun 24, 2013 7:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Azogs Origin
That makes sense, I however heard that he ruled Moria for quite some time.. placing this guy seems to be more different than it at first seemd. :|
Author:  Draugluin [ Mon Jun 24, 2013 8:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Azogs Origin
It was actually Boromir who saw the Uruk-Hai in Moria, specifically stating that he saw some Black Uruks of Mordor that were bigger than the rest. He's definitely an Uruk-hai. On a side note, I consider the current Gundabad Blackshields Uruk-hai that had been sent to Moria, but I'm keeping my fingers crossed that we'll be getting some models for the other White Orcs that were fighting alongside Azog. Not to mention a fully armored Azog.
Author:  wiirgy [ Mon Jun 24, 2013 8:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Azogs Origin
Draugluin wrote:
It was actually Boromir who saw the Uruk-Hai in Moria, specifically stating that he saw some Black Uruks of Mordor that were bigger than the rest. He's definitely an Uruk-hai. On a side note, I consider the current Gundabad Blackshields Uruk-hai that had been sent to Moria, but I'm keeping my fingers crossed that we'll be getting some models for the other White Orcs that were fighting alongside Azog. Not to mention a fully armored Azog.


Awesome! Thanks for the information, my Azog conversion is soon done, having troubles making his eyes look ok. There is a picture of him in my W.I.P thread if you are interested, he is nothing special so def. looking forward to the official model.
Author:  Fëanor, the mighty elf [ Mon Jun 24, 2013 8:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Azogs Origin
Draugluin wrote:
It was actually Boromir who saw the Uruk-Hai in Moria, specifically stating that he saw some Black Uruks of Mordor that were bigger than the rest. He's definitely an Uruk-hai. On a side note, I consider the current Gundabad Blackshields Uruk-hai that had been sent to Moria, but I'm keeping my fingers crossed that we'll be getting some models for the other White Orcs that were fighting alongside Azog. Not to mention a fully armored Azog.

You had me doubting for a second, but it was actually really Gandalf. ;)

Quote:
With a quick movement Gandalf stepped before the narrow opening of the door and thrust forward his staff: There was a dazzling flash that lit the chamber and the passage outside. For an instant the wizard looked out. Arrows whined and whistled down the corridor as he sprang back.
'There are Orcs, very many of them,' he said. `And some are large and evil: black Uruks of Mordor. For the moment they are hanging back, but there is something else there. A great cave-troll, I think, or more than one.
There is no hope of escape that way.'

J.R.R. Tolkien - Fellowship of the Ring
Author:  DurinsBane [ Mon Jun 24, 2013 9:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Azogs Origin
The films use of terminology of species has only harmed Tolkien's concept.
For the best explanation look here....
Click Here
Author:  Fëanor, the mighty elf [ Mon Jun 24, 2013 9:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Azogs Origin
DurinsBane wrote:
The films use of terminology of species has only harmed Tolkien's concept.
For the best explanation look here....
Click Here

That's true, but one of the problems is that many of these ideas are from a later time in his life, after publication of the Hobbit and Lord of the Rings. So in that sense, we should first ask "at what time in Tolkien's life do you want to know how he thought about Azog?" Anyway, with the works he published, it's very reasonable to me that Azog was an Uruk.
The canon debate is always though and hardly ever conclusive.

Thanks for the link though, it looks like an excellent article! :)
Author:  Draugluin [ Mon Jun 24, 2013 10:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Azogs Origin
Wow, it was Gandalf? Geez, shows how long it's been since I've read the books.
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