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Counter Strategy to King's Champion?
https://ww.one-ring.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=26723		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Robshaw [ Sun Nov 10, 2013 1:07 am ]
Post subject:  Counter Strategy to King's Champion?
So here it is , i am now NEVER allowed to play with my King's Champion when fighting against some of my opponents who i regularly play against , they all seem to find its someway overpowered for its points value and think it should be around 200+ mark.

I mean all i did was use it with 12 Iron Guard and i cut through 2 whole warbands , now most of the damage came from the King's Champion himself ( killing uruk captain , Vrasku , 6 uruks with shield and around 10 pikemen after i broken through and flanked ). At strength 5 A3 F6 he is a BEAST! , on top of that the D9 really helps versus heroes and troops needing 6/4 etc to wound :D

Anyone have any counter strategy i can drip feed them to make them be less angry and upset , would very much appreciate it.
Author:  JamesR [ Sun Nov 10, 2013 1:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Counter Strategy to King's Champion?
I'd say shades as they make it where he cannot roll a 6 w/o might expendature. Also monsters can rend him so thats another option.
To be honest i hate poor sports like your opponents. They need to "man-up" and figure out a way to beat him, he's certainly not a "broken" unit because he can be highly vulnerable in proper circumstances
Author:  Robshaw [ Sun Nov 10, 2013 1:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Counter Strategy to King's Champion?
shades , and monsters noted. I dont have the Moria and Angmar source book so i never noticed about them , will be getting it i now to complete my collection.

Always dismissed Moria and Angmar you see as i think them as weak puny forces.

Playing against Easterling Next week , khamul , Amdur , etc ... should be interesting.
Author:  JamesR [ Sun Nov 10, 2013 1:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Counter Strategy to King's Champion?
Moria is a very solid force with the new monster rules as they have access to SO many monsters for varying point ranges, also fury with black-shields is pretty effective for pretty low points. They really are a balancing act to play effectively
Author:  Robshaw [ Sun Nov 10, 2013 1:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Counter Strategy to King's Champion?
Thing is the strategy i used with him was swarm him with Iron Guard on the initial charge and ofc to shield him and the heralds from S4 crossbow fire as i was playing uruks today ) similar to how the uruks protect the battering ram against the rohan on the bridge and then it comes out at the front really hard and fast ) . Then i opened him up on a lucky priority into his captain sending the guys in front of him to the sides so he could move through. I then used the back 6 iron guard to flank round the sides and to make sure the crossbowmen could not hit or see the herald. On top of that i had some lucky throwing axes charges. His only bad move was using the crossbowmen as if they were some orc archers with range 18 instead of 24 inches.
Author:  Hashut's Blessing [ Sun Nov 10, 2013 2:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Counter Strategy to King's Champion?
Take out the banner bearers and he's no more difficult than any other Dwarven hero. To be fair, if they aren't taking out the banners anyway, they don't understand how to best Dwarfs as is, lol :P
Author:  Robshaw [ Sun Nov 10, 2013 4:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Counter Strategy to King's Champion?
I did not let them take out the banner bearers , a good 6-8 Iron Guard physically and LOS blocked anyone coming in.
Author:  Draugluin [ Sun Nov 10, 2013 6:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Counter Strategy to King's Champion?
If they bring in a troll, all the troll has to do is hurl somebody at the champion and knock down all 3 models. Then next turn charge the troll in and rend with double strikes and without the help of the heralds' fate. I also find Mumak work pretty well.
Author:  Coenus Scaldingus [ Sun Nov 10, 2013 9:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Counter Strategy to King's Champion?
Were all of those Iron Guard in his warband? As that would be illegal, the two banners already take up two places, so a maximum of 10 would be allowed.
Don't see the problem here though. Yes, that model should be a bit more expensive (140-150 seems justified), but you describe a situation where over 300pts of models kill a bit under 300pts of enemy models.
As for those counter-strategies, I can support the view that even when in range of a banner, Iron Guard do not like Shades...
Other than that, magic (or Spectres) can be used to move those Heralds away. Without the additional Defence, Fate and of course the banner re-rolls, he suddenly is quite a bit less scary.
Author:  SouthernDunedain [ Sun Nov 10, 2013 9:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Counter Strategy to King's Champion?
Magic. If the KC is transfixed, then he cannot strike you and he has 1/2 FV. Just keep transfixing him. The KoU on fellbeasty would be very good seeing as he could match all his base stats.
Author:  SuicidalMarsbar [ Sun Nov 10, 2013 10:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Counter Strategy to King's Champion?
Yeah your friends are just noobs and bad losers.
Author:  Goldman25 [ Sun Nov 10, 2013 11:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Counter Strategy to King's Champion?
Various strategies could work. As others have mentioned, hitting him with a Transfix/Compel will draw him out and lower his stats, then have him be hit by a troll/monster of some sort. Taking away the two heralds is vitally important, either by killing them or forcing them away with a Compel. A fell beast/other flyer would work pretty well. I'm also going to suggest a dragon, although I don't know what points you play with. Not sure if Flame Breath ignores/cancels Fate, but either way it's still deadly, and would take down the Iron Guard surrounding him, at least. After all, Overkill is underrated.

Maybe Castellans of Dol Guldur/the Witch King, using Morgul blades, would do a good deal of damage to him.

Opponents who ban you from using certain models altogether annoy me. They just need to come up with inventive strategies of their own, really. Uruk-hai can do some serious damage to a force of dwarves, after all. The special strikes would also help a lot, especially the axe special strike (that reminds me, is an Uruk's special strike the sword one or the pick one?).

As an aside, can the Knight of Umbar mimic an opponent's base stats while the opponent is Transfixed, or does he mimic the Transfixed stats?
Author:  SouthernDunedain [ Sun Nov 10, 2013 11:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Counter Strategy to King's Champion?
Pretty sure the KoU takes unaltered stats, I'll check the FAQ.

Edit: Yup, KoU takes unaltered. Remember that also applies to heroic strike. You cannot mimic a heroic strike FV.

I have a feeling I'll be facing one later, keep an eye on the battle report section to see how I get on.
Author:  Robshaw [ Sun Nov 10, 2013 3:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Counter Strategy to King's Champion?
So Saruman + an isengard troll for next game i shall recommend as we are playing themed armies. To answer an earlier question yes they are quite new have only just started doing low level magic ( shamans etc ) , we are moving onto more game changing magic hence the addition of Saruman.
Author:  MoriaMadness [ Sun Nov 10, 2013 4:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Counter Strategy to King's Champion?
I faced a mordor siege bow on thursday with my kings champion and that gave me a few headaches, it has the potential to knock down all 3 models easily with the 3inch scatter. I was lucky that none of them were wounded but it did send the heralds flying in the opposite direction a few times 8)
Author:  Bilbo [ Sun Nov 10, 2013 7:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Counter Strategy to King's Champion?
SouthernDunedain wrote:
Magic. If the KC is transfixed, then he cannot strike you and he has 1/2 FV. Just keep transfixing him. The KoU on fellbeasty would be very good seeing as he could match all his base stats.



Hi SD,

Thanks for the game earlier at East Grinstead which you actually tried this out. It did neautralise his effectiveness. just a shame I could never seem to wound him with the Barad Dur captain!
Author:  Bilbo [ Sun Nov 10, 2013 7:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Counter Strategy to King's Champion?
I feel inspired to paint up my one now! Seriously your mates should man up and see it as a challenge1
Author:  SouthernDunedain [ Sun Nov 10, 2013 8:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Counter Strategy to King's Champion?
Robshaw wrote:
To answer an earlier question yes they are quite new have only just started doing low level magic ( shamans etc ) , we are moving onto more game changing magic hence the addition of Saruman.


They are new players and you're bringing a kings champ and iron guard?! wow, talk about desperate to win much :roll:

@bilbo, yeah magic did slow him down. Could have done with the witchking charging in on and knocking him over. stupid D9 heroes.
Author:  Beowulf03809 [ Mon Nov 11, 2013 4:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Counter Strategy to King's Champion?
If you are facing new players then a beast model isn't something you should be bringing along regularly anyway, but I agree...no model should be 'banned' by your opponents because they can't beat it. It's perfectly fine for them to tell you "I just can't win against that force yet. Can you play something else for a while as I learn/collect more to be more competitive?" That would be a request I imagine you'd respect. But if they say "You can't bring him any more" well...sorry.
Author:  Bilbo [ Mon Nov 11, 2013 4:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Counter Strategy to King's Champion?
Perhaps you could throw them a slow soft ball with a Shire army!
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