The One Ring
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The Galadhrim can't fight.
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Author:  MeatBoy1994 [ Mon Mar 05, 2012 5:11 pm ]
Post subject:  The Galadhrim can't fight.
Why are the Galadhrim so rubbish at fighting in the film? One berserker kills like, six of them with one mighty swing, one gets hit by a crossbow bolt and somehow falls forward off the wall, and when Aragorn says 'charge' (stupid command- they still had arrows) one dumb elf runs straight onto a pike. Just before Haldir dies, he turns round- and gets hit from behind. That stupid uruk must have been right in front of him, roaring in his face. I mean, come on. What the??
Author:  hobbitlord [ Mon Mar 05, 2012 5:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Galadhrim can't fight.
everything you said seems fair bar the little thing about haldir, if you look closly the uruk jumps off a ladder about 5 foot away and then it kills haldir killing him , :sad: haldir is amasing but not even he has eyes on the back of his head,
Author:  Ardboe [ Mon Mar 05, 2012 5:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Galadhrim can't fight.
I know, a lot of the good guys in middle earth are terrible fighters in the movies. During the siege of minas tirith the warriors of gondor get their butt kicked, men in heavy armour getting taken down by puny looking orcs with a clubs and fists..cmon! I guess PJ was just trying to speed the fight scenes up a bit.
Author:  Valamir [ Mon Mar 05, 2012 6:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Galadhrim can't fight.
Actually, not to go too overboard, but I have had my Warriors of MT fight like that before... Then the archers get to the fight, and slaughter everything in their path. I'm not entirely sure how that works, but somehow it does. Oh, with the exception of my banner bearer, who stands alone in the sea of enemies until rescued by the archers. Go figure.

And no, I don't know what's up with the good warriors dying all over the place, however, one must remember that actual combat is different from choreographed fight scenes, and choreographed fight scenes are different from strategy games. :) Ah well, with any luck the wood elves of Thranduil's halls will fight more like their Noldorin kin from the beginning of the first rather than the Silvan cousins of the second film.
Author:  Draugluin [ Mon Mar 05, 2012 6:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Galadhrim can't fight.
The Galadhrim didn't belong there to begin with, they belonged up in Mirkwood kicking the Necromancer out of Dol Guldor.
Author:  Blackknight1239 [ Mon Mar 05, 2012 6:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Galadhrim can't fight.
I think it was just an easy way to emphasize that the orcs and Uruk-Hai were a huge threat, instead of just some dudes to be killed. A little cheap, I'll admit, but I think it worked.
Author:  Valamir [ Mon Mar 05, 2012 6:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Galadhrim can't fight.
Agreed. They belonged just about anywhere but at Helm's Deep... Which is where Erkenbrand did belong. Alas, but for the scruples of movie makers who have no qualms about changing major plot points. Thankfully, though, they did not keep Arwen, whom, as I heard, they were considering having show up at Helm's Deep. *shudder*
Author:  Draugluin [ Mon Mar 05, 2012 6:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Galadhrim can't fight.
They were originally gonna have Arwen kill the WK at the Ford. And take out TTT completely. And an incredible amount of other stuff to be able to fit it into 2 movies.
Author:  Telchar [ Mon Mar 05, 2012 8:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Galadhrim can't fight.
Valamir wrote:
Agreed. They belonged just about anywhere but at Helm's Deep... Which is where Erkenbrand did belong. Alas, but for the scruples of movie makers who have no qualms about changing major plot points. Thankfully, though, they did not keep Arwen, whom, as I heard, they were considering having show up at Helm's Deep. *shudder*


Or having Aragorn duel and defeat Sauron. I would have hated on PJ to this day if they'd done that.
Author:  imrail [ Mon Mar 05, 2012 8:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Galadhrim can't fight.
As said before, and in particular with the WoMT, it was to speed up the fighting.
I forgot the name, but the ones that win can "shoot" straight and the ones that are supposed to lose shoot really crappy.

And again to speed things up, it looks like they travel to Mordor in a couple of weeks, the books however stated that they waited months in Rivendell before travelling.
And Frodor had to wait 17? years before Gandalf showed up again to tell him about the ring.

A good example is the first star wars film, episode 4, the storm troopers kill the rebels without any problems.
Some scenes and perhaps a film later, they (storm troopers) shoot like a 4 year old and the rebels like the best marksmen.

Aragorn gave the order to charge because Gimli was lying in the water.
1. He could drown
2. If he tried to stand up the uruks would kill him right away

So he let them shoot 1 volley and then the elves charged to save the life of Gimli.
Indeed, it is very stupid that an elf would run into a pike, but a phalanx formation is one of the deadliest formations there is, an impenetrable wall of pikes.

The elf that fell when he was hit by a bolt, perhaps an uruk dragged him when he climbed up the battlements.
As for the elves that kill in 1 shot, the crossbow is a really potent weapon, a good crossbow archer could shoot 2 bolts in a minute, and a bolt could easily kill a heavy armoured warrior.
That's why the pope "banned" the crossbow, because it was without honour, you could however kill an "infidel" with it.

The reason why the elves are at Helmsdeep, they could add another character, Erkenbrand, but that could be so confusing and there are already so many characters that you have to remember. For the same reason there are so many other characters removed from the films.

Historically there where 2handed swordsmen who smashed the pikes to pieces, and of course archers are a good choice to kill pike armed warriors.
The Uruks are killed easily, to speed things up again.
They have, as Gimli said, "thick armour and broad shields", but they get killed by a simple elven arrow?

In the films Sauron is a big flaming eye, how spooky!
In the books it is stated that he has a body, but that he is scared to come out.
Again a difference with major consequences.

The major antagonist from the films is the ring itself and the Witch King in my opinion and vision and not that flaming eye that chills on top of his fortress.
Author:  GothmogtheWerewolf [ Mon Mar 05, 2012 9:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Galadhrim can't fight.
The topic name, and the film scenes, probably explains why Elves are so bad in WotR.
Author:  Valamir [ Mon Mar 05, 2012 10:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Galadhrim can't fight.
Well expounded, imrail.

@Gothmog- And yes, it is most likely out of sympathy to their digitized cousins that my WotR elves have issues.
Author:  GothmogtheWerewolf [ Mon Mar 05, 2012 11:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Galadhrim can't fight.
@imrail, Sauron was not "scared to come out", it was, as Denethor explains to Pippin, a tactful decision to send others in his place.

Though everything else you said is true, and pretty much to the letter.
Author:  Telchar [ Tue Mar 06, 2012 7:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Galadhrim can't fight.
imrail wrote:
As said before, and in particular with the WoMT, it was to speed up the fighting.
I forgot the name, but the ones that win can "shoot" straight and the ones that are supposed to lose shoot really crappy.


I think you mean the "storm trooper effect".
Author:  imrail [ Tue Mar 06, 2012 8:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Galadhrim can't fight.
GothmogtheWerewolf wrote:
@imrail, Sauron was not "scared to come out", it was, as Denethor explains to Pippin, a tactful decision to send others in his place.

Though everything else you said is true, and pretty much to the letter.


Indeed, I remember Gandalf saying that he wouldn't show himself personally until he was assured of a victory

Telchar wrote:
imrail wrote:
As said before, and in particular with the WoMT, it was to speed up the fighting.
I forgot the name, but the ones that win can "shoot" straight and the ones that are supposed to lose shoot really crappy.


I think you mean the "storm trooper effect".


Oh hahaha I wasn't that far off.
Author:  Valamir [ Tue Mar 06, 2012 11:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Galadhrim can't fight.
Yes, or perhaps we should call it, the Ewok effect. After all, how is "An entire legion of my finest troops," as the Emperor says, defeated by one shuttle of Rebels and teddybears? By all accounts, it just doesn't add up.
Author:  GothmogtheWerewolf [ Wed Mar 07, 2012 12:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Galadhrim can't fight.
Don't even mention Eewoks, they are shudderingly awful.
Author:  Draugluin [ Wed Mar 07, 2012 1:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Galadhrim can't fight.
Valamir wrote:
Yes, or perhaps we should call it, the Ewok effect. After all, how is "An entire legion of my finest troops," as the Emperor says, defeated by one shuttle of Rebels and teddybears? By all accounts, it just doesn't add up.

Hey, those teddybears were awesome, least ways to my 6 year old brain when I first saw it. Besides, they had HAN SOLO AND STINKIN' (literally) CHEWBACCA! There's no way they could lose!
Author:  Pindergorn [ Wed Mar 07, 2012 1:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Galadhrim can't fight.
Draugluin wrote:
Valamir wrote:
Yes, or perhaps we should call it, the Ewok effect. After all, how is "An entire legion of my finest troops," as the Emperor says, defeated by one shuttle of Rebels and teddybears? By all accounts, it just doesn't add up.

Hey, those teddybears were awesome, least ways to my 6 year old brain when I first saw it. Besides, they had HAN SOLO AND STINKIN' (literally) CHEWBACCA! There's no way they could lose!


You're both forgetting the Stormtrooper School of Marksmanship. With a Shoot Value of 6+, the Empire was doomed from the start.
Author:  imrail [ Wed Mar 07, 2012 7:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Galadhrim can't fight.
Indeed! Forgot about the battle against the ewoks.

But they had to get rid of the elves that where in Helmsdeep in the first place, so every elf had to be killed somehow.
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