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 Post subject: Re: Thermo's 500pt All Cavalry Rohan
PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 6:35 am 
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Did neither of you have a rulebook to hand? Pg 52&53 tells you all you need to know re cav. Don't assume that we all know the rules 100% ;) always question if you're not sure.
Your second list sounds tough. KotP is a scary model.

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 Post subject: Re: Thermo's 500pt All Cavalry Rohan
PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 7:51 am 
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We did indeed mate, although I am very trusting! I could be remembering wrong due to the fact that all of my cavalry got knocked over at some point or other, but I'm sure I was only getting +1 when charging his little spiders. Oh well, was all good fun! And Eomer swung it my was with well timed and executed heroic combats.

Hurling was nasty but defence 6 was keeping most of my SoE and rrg alive against the strength 3, just horseless!

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 Post subject: Re: Thermo's 500pt All Cavalry Rohan
PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 9:09 am 
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Thing is I don't own a Thranduil model, and I don't see the point in buying a lotr one when The Hobbit model should be released soon, also there will probably be a billion Thranduil's so I am gonna go for Rumil instead, that way I can squeeze in another 3 men woopdeedoo

Monsters are much less of a threat when they lack M/W/F, but I suppose dwellers sort of walk the line between being monster and hero thanks to their wound regeneration.
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 Post subject: Re: Thermo's 500pt All Cavalry Rohan
PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 1:41 pm 
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Glad to see you get a win with the mounted Rohan! Think you've made the right choice with your army list, sounds like the banner was as inefficient as I expected and KotP is a very good leader at 500 points (D7, 3 Wounds, 3 Fate). Shame to see you losing the throwing spears, particularly given how effective they were in the first game, think you've made the right choice though.

I played Charles with roughly that list + Dwimmerlaik and Troll Chieftain at 750 points at the Longbottom Carnival and whilst I won found it a very tough nut to crack. Once my shaman's will was sapped the combination of Terror and Harbinger of Evil meant I was having trouble charging and trapping the beasties. The Dwellers in particular were nasty because of their wound regeneration rule, I'd never faced one before and having 2 on the board was hard work.

Looks like I'll finally get a couple of practice games in this weekend, looking forward to seeing how Sharky gets on!

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 Post subject: Re: Thermo's 500pt All Cavalry Rohan
PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 2:13 pm 
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Good work on that second game. The list is better for sure and you are now down to minor tweaks if you want.

As I've mentioned before, Heroic Combat is, IMO, one of the best uses of Might in the game. For a Cav force it can be amazing because you MUST get the charge to be fully effective and being able to do it twice on the same turn can really be awesome. You can either hammer hard in a limited area, jump the victorious models onto other combats that need help (MONSTERS!) or use it to punch a gap in a front line and charge back rank models that expected to be safe. Fun to see wizards and 'soft' heroes go down when surprised like this.

ALWAYS look for a good setup for an Heroic Combat before you charge, and even if it's best used with 2-3 of your models involved in the combat don't underestimate the value of Heroic Combat with just a powerful mounted hero like Eomer, Boromir or Aragorn. Not as cost effective then if you can get a couple basic troops in there with him but it can still have major impact on the turn or even the game if done right.

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 Post subject: Re: Thermo's 500pt All Cavalry Rohan
PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2013 2:18 pm 
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@Dr Grant - Yup, nice to notch another win with them but more importantly, learn absolutely loads along the way. About making/not making mistakes, about the two suggested new lists, about different opponents/armies I may come up against and about myself too haha!

Shame to lose the extra throwing spears I agree, but taking Eomer all day long is a good way to go I feel. As you mention, he can be a beast with those four attacks on the charge at strength 5 and the knockdown.

Yup, both Charles' lists were tough on the meta and valuable learning for me. Winning the heroic combat vs spider queen and killing her outright when the Beast Caller had cast the spell that whacks everything up was not just a sigh of relief but game changing, especially with deployment working against me so much. Allowed me to go on and kill the bat swarm but more importantly, arrange the combats so the second dweller was ineffective. I think once they had taken wounds, they didn't get a chance to regenerate, as they were throwing but not killing most of my models!

Good luck with the practice games and let us know how you get on!

Organised 5 of us for some gaming in Stockport yesterday but a player short, I took it for the team and let my rohirrim watch the others in action.

@Beowulf - Thanks pal, I agree, much much happier with this list!

Got to agree with you. Thursday was the first time I had called heroic combats and it couldn't have gone better for me... really game changing. Charles rolling fives with no might left helped but that's the name of the games! Pre that, I had only really ever heroic marched, heroic moved (lots) and heroic striked (struck!) Nice to have another option now I can see how effective it can be, for me in particular!

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 Post subject: Re: Thermo's 500pt All Cavalry Rohan
PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2013 2:35 pm 
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Wahooo, 4 Outriders plus the actual Knight of the Pelennor model have arrived!

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 Post subject: Re: Thermo's 500pt All Cavalry Rohan
PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2013 2:36 pm 
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Yeah that's what I like to see ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Thermo's 500pt All Cavalry Rohan
PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2013 2:41 pm 
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Don't think I've ever seen 4 actual outrider models in an army - good for you! looking forward to seeing them at Preston! Got me tempted now, after all, my Rohan force isn't truly complete until I've got all the models...

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 Post subject: Re: Thermo's 500pt All Cavalry Rohan
PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2013 3:26 pm 
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Seemingly impossible to find via trade, nightmare to find on ebay and always seems that some poor soul over in Australia or some other place buys them for more than the retail price here... so I took the plunge and bought direct from GW. Expensive plunge but looking forward to getting them painted up, nice models too!

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 Post subject: Re: Thermo's 500pt All Cavalry Rohan
PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 2:15 pm 
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Seeing as you asked Thermo here’s a not so little breakdown of how my games on Sunday went!

Firstly I was playing against my non-gamer friend Chris, he doesn’t collect/paint and hadn’t played in ages, with that in mind he was keen to use some fun models and have a bit of a laugh rather than use the most competitive list.

In the first game I took my 4 captain Isengard list from a few pages back (D7 captain, Sharky & Worm, Armoured shaman, Vrasku, 8 Crossbowmen, 3 Beserkers, 12 ferals) and he took Radagast on horse, an eagle, Beefy Eomer on horse and Thorin with Orcrist and the Oakenshield. We played Lords of Battle to give the all hero list a chance.

Chris did the only thing he could and got stuck right in, charging the eagle, Eomer and Thorin into my lines and hoping for 6’s! The eagle charged the end of a line of crossbowmen hoping to win and get a Hurl off but Vrasku and a couple of crossbowmen counter charged to trap the bird, called a Heroic strike and killed it. Thorin and my D7 leader then had a Heroic Strike off which Thorin won but he then fluffed his attacks and only rolled a 4 meaning he had to burn his last 2 Might to win the Fight. Now out of Might, it didn’t take long for that bad roll to come up again and he fell under a pile if feinting ferals. Eomer had more luck, he was facing the shaman and ferals so had no-one to challenge his Fight 5 so didn’t need to burn Might on Strikes. Radagast was using his Might to call Heroic Moves when necessary to get Eomer the charge and he proved what an absolute beast he was on the charge, slaughtering the Shaman and 2 ferals in one turn! Sharky was held up for the whole game by Radagast’s Immobilises but I could equally argue that that stopped Radagast Immobilising my more important heroes too. However, eventually and perhaps inevitably I was able to get the upper hand through weight of numbers and Vrasku finally reached the now Mightless Eomer and took him down. Radagast was the last to fall (despite fighting off 4 ferals 2 turns running!) and the game ended with a 21-8 victory to me.

It’s hard to know what to take from that as all hero armies struggle so much. I’d say perhaps the eagle isn’t worth it in a hero list as his lack of Might/Will make him an easy target for Immobilises and Heroic Strikes. However, most importantly it was a quick, fun game and we moved onto the next one.

Chris was keen to give the heroes another go (this time taking mounted Eomer, Gandalf, Thorin and Dwalin) and we picked Hold Ground with me figuring that they’d have a shot if I rolled poorly for deployment and he was able to isolate 1 or two warbands. As it was that was exactly what happened and all 4 of his heroes (although Eomer had had to burn 2 Might to come on in the right place) ended up facing off against Sharky, Worm, my captain and about 8 ferals whilst Vrasku my shaman and the rest of my army were in the opposite corner of the board - the game was definitely on! Again, Chris got stuck in as soon as possible with Eomer charging 2 ferals and using his last Might point to declare a Heroic Combat that would allow him to charge Sharky. Unfortunately he then fluffed his attacks and lost the fight, Thorin then rolled no higher than a 2 and lost his fight against a feral and a Beserker, using up some Fate. Finally Dwalin fighting against 4 ferals rolled no higher than a 3 and promptly died.

At this point, with Thorin wounded, Eomer out of Might and Dwalin dead we decided the game was all but over, fantastic in a tournament but not so much in a fun practice game. So, we reset the combats and tried again! This time, Eomer smashed the two ferals, charged into Sharky and slaughtered him, Thorin won his combat and Dwalin won his combat and killed 3 ferals! Much...errrr...better! Suddenly the tide had turned in that corner and after a couple more turns the 4 heroes had wiped out my 2 warbands and started heading for the centre where my other warbands were waiting. Chris had killed the perfect number of ferals at this point, I was 1 away from breaking, this meant i was severely down on numbers but as I wasn’t broken the game couldn’t end allowing Chris to get into a good position at his leisure.

Good use of scenery, the dwarves high defence and Gandalf’s Blinding Light meant my crossbows had no effect and before I knew it they were on me. As I was broken and my leader dead, with Chris’ 4 models he had 10 VPs. I had about 15 VPs so Chris needed to kill 6 models in 2 turns to win, safe to say he managed this easily, immobilising Vrasku so he couldn’t help and using his heroes to munch through my troops. I can’t remember exactly but I think it ended with a 10-6 win to Chris.

We were both really pleased with this game to be honest, it’s always good to see an all hero army win and using our time machine certainly made for a more interesting battle. All games of SBG come down to luck at some point but this reinforced my feelings that all hero armies are far more dependent on it that normal armies, one bad turn of rolls cost Chris the whole game, when we reset it and he got better rolls he then went on to win fairly comfortably. It’s the main reason I rarely play all hero armies, I’m just not comfortable betting the outcome of whole game on my ability to roll a 6 on 3 dice. However, I will say that if you’re going all hero then Beefy Eomer is a really good addition, D7, 3 M/W/F are all very good but it’s his S5 on the charge that’s fantastic, when combined with his horse he’s a brilliant troop killer which is what all hero armies need, when he charges and gets swamped (as he will if your opponent wants any chance of winning) he can comfortably kill 4 D5 or less models a turn - superb. His only downside is F5 which gives him a big disadvantage against elves, reavers, monsters etc. as well as a slightly less comfortable starting point for those Heroic Strikes. However, for riding around the flanks and slaughtering the rank and file I think he’s an excellent choice.

After that we decided to have a more serious game and pit my ferals against a Rohan list that was Beefy Eomer and Erkenbrand leading 3 Redshields, 3 Redshields with throwing spears, 3 Royal Guard with Throwing Spears and 3 Rohan warriors with throwing spears and shields (no Helmingas as S4 wouldn’t help against ferals). I wanted to try this as it was a better idea of the kind of armies I’d face at Preston (particularly as you’re coming Thermo!). I also let Chris use the ferals this time to change things up, it’s always a good idea to see if you can beat your own army after all.

We decided to play the Preston custom scenario (essentially it’s Hold Ground deployment with 5 objectives placed around the board Domination style. The twist is the objectives are goblins that move around and that you have to beat in combat to capture - if you lose they can wound you!). Thanks to bad deployment rolls Chris found his army split up as mine was in the previous game with his Crossbowmen and Leader warband in the middle of the East edge and his Shaman and Sharky on the opposite side. I was then able to bring in a warband each on in the North and South and charge towards his uruks hoping to trap them in the middle. I hit the crossbowmen first hoping to ride them down quickly but unfortunately my cavalry bases got in the way and I couldn’t bring numbers to bear. I was only able to kill a couple before his Leader’s feral warband were on me turning the odds against me. Sadly Erkenbrand’s warband were about 2 inches too far away and as such reached the combats a turn too late to save too many of Eomer’s warband. Eomer himself found himself trapped by a feral, Beserker and his Leader, lost the Heroic Strike off and went down in 1 turn (a feinting feral, 2 handed Beserker and S5 Captain make D7 look very foolish indeed). I knew it would be an uphill struggle from this point particularly as whilst I was fighting for my life his other 12 models were picking up 2 of the goblin objectives. His leader however was down to one wound, if I could kill him and break the uruks that could go some way to leveling the field, anything could happen with the objectives. In one brutal combat phase I was able to kill just enough models to break him and Erkenbrand charged his leader - a hope? A chance! Unfortunately Sharky then Immobilised him on a roll of 6! I agonised over whether or not to resist it with his 1 Will and eventually decided against it as I was unlikely to roll a 6 and the Will point might be more useful for a failed courage test next turn, besides, the captain would need to roll 2 5+s AND I’d have to fail Erky’s Fate for him to die. Chris promptly rolled a 5 and a 6, I failed Erky’s Fate roll and he died, taking his horn with him. Oh dear. By this point it looked very iffy, on the plus side the 2 goblins he was holding both escaped from the uruks, slashing his VPs, I’d also managed to charge 2 goblins with D6 Royal guard so could get myself 4 VPs - sadly both Royal Guard then lost their fights against the goblins and were killed with 2 rolls of 6! Story of my game really :-) By this point I was down to below 25% so the game ended with Chris in control of 3 of the goblins for something like a 10-3 victory.

Looking back there were lots of points it could have gone differently, if Eomer had won that 50/50 roll off he could well have killed the Uruk leader AND I would still have had Eomer running around causing havoc. Failing to grab those 2 objectives and Erkenbrand being slaughtered in one turn were pretty typical of my game but I can’t take anything away from Chris who played well, called the right Heroic Actions and used the right spells. Besides, I can’t be too mad, he was using my Preston army, this was a good result for me! Most importantly for me, Chris seemed to have a good day and hopefully it’s rejuvenated his interest in the game.

So overall lessons learned were I’m happy with the army, Sharky did well throughout the day, 2+ Immobilise being all but a sure thing and there’s a lot of 1 Will heroes about that won’t be able to resist it (particularly if you roll a 6!). I’ve got a bunch more games lined up on Sunday against Tom Harrison’s elves so I’ll see how I get on there but I’m feeling pretty good about the army at the moment.

That’s all from me, hope you enjoyed the insight!

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 Post subject: Re: Thermo's 500pt All Cavalry Rohan
PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 11:35 pm 
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Those of you that want to see this all cavalry Rohan list in action, check out the video bat rep here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5aR5F-X_4NI&feature=youtu.be

Spoiler alert (recommend watching the vid first, and subscribing!)

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A surprise victory for the mounted Rohan list against a Wood Elf army that seemed very suited to putting the Rohirrim on their bums, literally!

I put this down to a few things...

1) Deployment - I decided to be very aggressive in deployment. I wasn't going to win a shooting match with his Mirkwood Guard, 2+ to hit, strength 3 bows and if he did whittle me down quickly, I needed to be in/on/around that objective if I died quickly and the game ended. Also, coming in on two sides worked well for me, most of the natures wrath and call winds etc being used early against the central force, which left Eomer's warband mounted and dangerous on the left flank.

2) Sons of Eorl - This is the first game I feel I really used these dudes to their full effect. I realised in the draw against Louis' new&old dwarf list that I need to commit these guys early and together... their three attacks on the charge can give you the odds even against a spear supported battle line and even the two attacks if you're not winning priority in the next turn can give you a fighting chance of holding out whilst you bring up reserves.

3) Erkenbrand - He was man of the match, for sheer holding out and keeping Thranduil occupied. I didn't realise shielding doubled the dice you could roll and thought it was just +1 but as you can see in the video, I think twice I rolled 6 dice instead of 4 (not intentional!) with just being used to the extra charge dice and the six on the knockdown. Interesting we named him when it was Knight of the Pelennor who slew Legolas, Thranduil and I think the Storncaller (although not sure)

4) Defence 6 - This really helped when my guys got blown off their horses early on. Jamie was unable to kill the RRG and Sons of Eorl which kept most of his force pinned in the middle and allowed me to recover.

Very chuffed to pull through with the unexpected victory against Jamie's tournament winning list and good training for Preston!


I'll try get some pics up and a written battle report for our second game which was my same list

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 Post subject: Re: Thermo's 500pt All Cavalry Rohan
PostPosted: Sat Oct 19, 2013 12:21 pm 
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Its very hard to stop Pellenor´s eomer on the charge unless you tricky and sacrifice stuff for that.
wood eles problem is the low S value to finish the job, although that is fairly easier done by adding guards of galadhrim court, although thats lorien and not mirkwood.
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 Post subject: Re: Thermo's 500pt All Cavalry Rohan
PostPosted: Sat Oct 19, 2013 12:42 pm 
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In case you haven't seen the bat rep, spoiler alert!

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Indeedy, and D6 didn't help him with that, which much of my force was. I think Jamie said it right, he was relying a lot on winning the fights through the higher fight value and the one extra dice in spear support, whereas I was getting the extra dice from charging in, particularly with the Sons of Eorl.

When he won the fights, he was struggling to kill me off, whereas when I won the fights, the knockdown and the low defence of the elves (and the feinting) was getting me the kills.

I hope the footage captured that this was a really really good and exciting game, which felt back and forth, and neither of us, even a few turns in, expected the Rohirrim to pull through.

The second game against his Gimli + Khazads and Dain + Iron Guard and banners was equally as good and although we didn't film it, I'll get a report up soonish.

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 Post subject: Re: Thermo's 500pt All Cavalry Rohan
PostPosted: Sat Oct 19, 2013 1:03 pm 
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Rohan has been one of my favorite armies for a long time - they are colourful, and quite happy to get stuck in - watch the charge at the Pelennor Fields, even as hundreds fall to the orc archers, there is one big guy in particular who looks like he is willing to take on all of Mordor by himself, urging the horse onwards.
The Horselords should have been given slightly more ability on horseback - again, in the Two Towers when Eomer's force attacks the uruks at night, you see at least one of the Rohirrim demonstrating the Parthian shot technique to great effect.

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 Post subject: Re: Thermo's 500pt All Cavalry Rohan
PostPosted: Sat Oct 19, 2013 1:38 pm 
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I agree, love the theme and love how they come across in the books, as much as the films!

I've also loved the challenge of trying to take something that I love theme wise, but not necessarily known to be the most competitive and trying to make it work. So thanks to everyone who has contributed to those ideas as I've modified, talked about and built this list in this thread :) Hopefully it will (and I will) keep improving!

Spoiler...

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This victory is for you guys!

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 Post subject: Re: Thermo's 500pt All Cavalry Rohan
PostPosted: Sat Oct 19, 2013 2:00 pm 
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Last time I fought with elves and the guy had like 5 SoE I did went straight for the horses, despite the defence 5 is pretty high on such beast, I do get 5s alot more often than 6s, which dismounting even from range is far better and affordable. And its highly risky getting SoE on horse charging with 3A/6 on the trample from elite models rather than something that only heroes could do.
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 Post subject: Re: Thermo's 500pt All Cavalry Rohan
PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 6:13 pm 
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Jamie and I fought two battles, unfortunately, we only filmed the first one!

See how the mounted Rohirrim faired in game two..

http://www.one-ring.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=26586

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 Post subject: Re: Thermo's 500pt All Cavalry Rohan
PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 2:54 pm 
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Another run out for this 500 point cavalry list, this time against JT of Orc-Ward games in Huddersfield.

It's another video battle report, so won't give spoilers but keep an eye out on the channel (or subscribe) to see how it faired!

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 Post subject: Re: Thermo's 500pt All Cavalry Rohan
PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 1:19 pm 
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Uploaded at last! See how the list faired against a Mumakil by subscribing to the below channel :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERUbwnKnt_s&feature=youtu.be

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