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Starting up two new armies
https://ww.one-ring.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=24225		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Uricha [ Tue Nov 13, 2012 12:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Starting up two new armies
Hey everyone, been looking around and it seems that i have found a good forum to settle down in. So yeah anyway, have been playing Whfb and 40k for a while and collected some of the Lord of the rings minis but first time now preparing for a game.

So the armies i´m thinking are elves and moria + a touch of mordor. What i could use your help and insight with is how to make these armies compatible against eachother while none of them becomes to much op against the other.

For the elves i´m going for a Lothlorien themed army and don´t want any regular wood elves except the sentinels. For higher point games i´m thinking Celeborn and Galadirel atleast, after that i´m pretty much open for anything.

For the evil army i´m thinkiing a gobil heavy army with atleast one troll. To go toe to toe with elves a mordor warband of maybe the shadowlord and some black numenorans could even out the fight? Suggestions anyone?

Thanks for your time
Author:  Constantine [ Tue Nov 13, 2012 1:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Starting up two new armies
Welcome to the forum Uricha, I hope you find your experience here fun and rewarding.

I would include a bunch of Gundabad goblins, they are good against Elves, maybe also some bats for their useful rule which becomes all the more important against the high Fight value of the Elves. The inclusion of Shadowlord would probably unbalance the situation a bit.

From Elves definitely Rumil to counter big monsters. (Btw Wood Elves are the residents of Lothlorien as well)

I am not very familiar with the two armies (I am considering starting a Moria force myself) so maybe wait to hear others' advice too. :boo:
Author:  Uricha [ Tue Nov 13, 2012 9:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Starting up two new armies
Thank you, i've been lurking around here for a while and i really like this forum, people here seems friendly and actually giving advice and an explenation for why.

Why are the gundabad goblins better? I only have the free peoples book so far so i can't check the stats but i guess they have a higher defence? I'm not overly fond of using beasts in my moria army, do i have any other options?
Which nazgul would be best to ally with the moria force then but still keep it balanced between the to armies?
Yeah Rumil seems to be a given choice here for most elf armies so i'll include him. I know, the only problem is that i really loathe the wood elf warrior minatures so i'm stuck with the much better looking galadrim. But since i'm not after a super competive army i think it's okey.
Would cavalry be a good option to take with my elves? If so, what hero should i choose to lead them and what would be the best way to use them?

Any help and answers are greatly appriciated
Author:  Agarwaen [ Tue Nov 13, 2012 9:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Starting up two new armies
Sounds good, im new on the forum too. looking forward to seeing your progress with the armies
Author:  WhoelsebutHaldir [ Tue Nov 13, 2012 9:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Starting up two new armies
For cavalry, the best commander you could get would be Glorfindel, but because he is in a different list and unless you can afford to lose points for warriors from your overall list I wouldn't recommend him. Having said that a bog standard galadhrim cpt with a horse and shield can be immensely effective. But it is not recommended that you use elf cavalry in games under 700pts because they chew into numbers so much.
For heroes Ide say always include a stormcaller and rumil because they are so good.

What points cost were you looking at playing?
Author:  whafrog [ Tue Nov 13, 2012 10:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Starting up two new armies
Gundabad Blackshields are higher Strength, higher D, and have an extra chance to wound elves and dwarves. They cost more, reducing your swarm, but make a great front line or assault force, while you flesh out numbers with normal goblins. Don't overlook prowlers, they get throwing weapons and an extra chance to wound if you're trapped, which kind of goes with the swarm thing.

Even if you're not into beasts, you might consider some bats, they're very useful for hunting heroes when paired with a troll. As for a wraith, I would think any would do, even a nameless one.

For elves, I'm dying to try it out but I think an all bow+shield cavalry would be really effective. They're so expensive you might as well give them a bow, and be sure they have a shield, since they benefit from the Expert Rider rule. Only the generic Galadhrim captain and Legolas can ride horses...not great but better than it used to be. (Agree with WhoelsebutHaldir, Glorfindel has to be allied in, which isn't the best deal IMHO unless you want to mix forces.)
Author:  WhoelsebutHaldir [ Tue Nov 13, 2012 10:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Starting up two new armies
The cav/shield army looks like it could be quite good. I too have been interested in giving it a try sometime.

Sorry to derail the thread but...
Wafrog do you know if anyone has tried it out? If so could you tell me where I could find a bat rep of it?
Author:  Uricha [ Tue Nov 13, 2012 11:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Starting up two new armies
Firstly i want to say thanks for all the replies and help so far.

What i'm aiming for in the end i think will be 1000 pts armies. To both put in Celeborn and Galadriel plus some cavalry in the elf list i think that is what i should aim for. Does that sound resonable?
I do like the sound of your thoughts to use the elven cavalry Whafrog. Maybe put them in as an extra hammer if the oppertunity shows itself? And yeah i think i'll just go with a regular captain to lead them since i want to keep a lothlorien themed army. Perhaps elledan and elrohir could work if points allow it.
I'm also very keen on using some sentinels in the elf army. Does anyone have any opnions how i should use them and about how many i would need?

I do like the sound of those gundabad goblins, since i want to keep a really high rate of goblins moria army a group of elite goblins sounds to be just what i need.
Prowlers seems to be interessting but again, how do i best use them? And how many should i feild?
Is there really no options if i don't take bats but still make it to even armies? I'm sorry to stress this issue so much but as said these armies will be for friendly games but if i want to take it to the next level i promise that the bats will find a home in my army.

No worries Whoelsebuthaldir, it's nice with some discussions within the topic aslong as it doesn't start to be about something completely out of topic :P
Author:  WhoelsebutHaldir [ Wed Nov 14, 2012 12:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Starting up two new armies
Having Glorfindel/twins and celeborn, in the same army is too many points on heroes in 1000pts. I'de say take two and use lower cost heroes like rumil,stormcallers,Haldir..... Also I think galadriel would be recommended at that points level so you have magic(more than just stormcallers anyway). Normal captains are good for leading cav and can pack a decent punch. Can't help with the sentinels, never used them before, but I'm curious to see where this is going.
Author:  whafrog [ Wed Nov 14, 2012 1:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Starting up two new armies
WhoelsebutHaldir wrote:
Wafrog do you know if anyone has tried it out? If so could you tell me where I could find a bat rep of it?


Sorry, I recall someone mentioning trying it quite a while ago, but I don't remember where I saw it...perhaps on the Last Alliance site.

Uricha wrote:
I do like the sound of your thoughts to use the elven cavalry Whafrog. Maybe put them in as an extra hammer if the oppertunity shows itself?


Or THE hammer, since by the time you're ready for a hammer, the shooting-pickings may be getting slim.

Uricha wrote:
I'm also very keen on using some sentinels in the elf army. Does anyone have any opnions how i should use them and about how many i would need?


I'm fond of them myself, rough guide might be 1 in 500, 2 in 750, 3 in 1000...though 2 is probably enough. We usually use them for positioning the enemy, like my son the other night: he had an unfortunate deployment, I had a line of Mahud camels ready to charge. He promptly called a heroic move (I didn't counter, I was overconfident), used a Sentinel to pull a camel rider in front of my mounted host between some terrain making charges impossible, and proceeded to pwn me :)

I know you don't like the wood elf sculpts, but this is where they shine: yank monsters or troops out of line and pepper them with throwing daggers. This lets you concentrate your bows elsewhere.

The Terror-causing song is also useful, if you need a warrior to hold a narrow spot.

Uricha wrote:
Prowlers seems to be interessting but again, how do i best use them? And how many should i feild?


Haven't played them in a while and point costs are higher in the new books than they used to be, but they still look pretty good. A blister or two in 500 points might be worth it. Not to go on about bats, but if you have a chance to get to a high-value target, a couple of prowlers, some blackshields, and a bat can take out heroes pretty quickly.
Author:  WhoelsebutHaldir [ Wed Nov 14, 2012 6:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Starting up two new armies
Ok thanks anyway. I might play test that some time, Ill be sure to put up the results if I do.
Author:  Uricha [ Thu Nov 15, 2012 1:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Starting up two new armies
Yeah thanks Whrafrog for all your counsel, i think that i now have an idea atleast how to use the sentinels, hopefully in a month or two i´ll be able to list my succes and ideas with them.

I really do hope they come with some resonable minatures for wood elves, atleast they could put more effort in their faces and detail..
So hopefully with the Hobbit and all we´ll see some new models for wood elves that i to can use ><

Anyone that has any good tips when using prowlers then? This bat seems to be pretty powerful, i think if this goes on i will have to do a test match with it and see it´s strenght.

So yeah since i don´t have the Moria/Angmar rulebook yet i haven´t been able to put together a list for a Moria army but this is a elven 1000 points list, please give your thoughts about it and help me perhaps make it better. Though it is not for a tourney and is not supposed to be over competetive either so no tips on wood elves please. I do want to use them but until i can find good models for it i wont bother. ANyway, here goes..



1000 pts Lothlorien army

Warband 1 - Total: 279 pts

(Leader) Celeborn
-HA
-Elven blade
-Sheild

6x Galadrim Warriors with sheild/spear
2x Galadrim Warriors with EB
2X GotGC
1x Wood elf Sentinel


Warband 2 - Total: 262 pts

Galadirel

7x Galdrim Warriors with bow/spear
1x Wood elf Sentinel
3x Galadrim Warriors with spear/sheild


Warband 3 - Total: 188 pts

Rumil

-5x Galadrim Warriors with spear/sheild
-2x Galadrim Warriors with spears
-2x Galadrim Warriors with EB
-2x GotGC


Warband 4 - Total 221 pts

Galadrim captain
-Armoured horse
-Elf bow
-Sheild
-Elven Blade

-4x Galadrim knights with sheild/elf bow
-2x Galadrim knights with EB/sheild


Warband 5 - Total: -

Stormcaller


Army total: 1000 pts

Soooo this is the list, i don´t know about this list but then again my first in the Lotr sbg. I also don´t have the main rulebook yet so please point out if there if there is anything technically wrong with my list as well, thanks.
Author:  jay170788 [ Wed Nov 28, 2012 2:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Starting up two new armies
I am too very new to LOTR SBG but on initial inspection the thing that most stands out to me is the distinct lack of bows, and elves being very shooty by nature it keeps in with fluff to add in more bows. Plus elves own the shooting phase (maybe up for debate) so make the most of it.
Author:  whafrog [ Wed Nov 28, 2012 4:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Starting up two new armies
jay170788 wrote:
I am too very new to LOTR SBG but on initial inspection the thing that most stands out to me is the distinct lack of bows,


He has 12...not maxed, but still good.
Author:  jay170788 [ Wed Nov 28, 2012 4:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Starting up two new armies
No i think his EB's are Elven blades not Elf bow's....
Author:  whafrog [ Wed Nov 28, 2012 5:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Starting up two new armies
Oops, I was wrong, I see 2 Sentinels, 7 Galadhrim with bow and spear, and 4 Knights...makes 13 :)
Author:  kidterminal [ Wed Nov 28, 2012 8:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Starting up two new armies
What about using the Goblin Raiders in the Moria army. They came out during my LOTR hiatus, but they look interesting. Anyone know if they are worth it?
Author:  jay170788 [ Thu Nov 29, 2012 8:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Starting up two new armies
Sorry didn't see the 7 in Galadriel's warband :-(
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