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Elrond's Household, Azog's Hunters Armies
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Author:  Imladris96 [ Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Elrond's Household, Azog's Hunters Armies
Hello

I was experimenting with what I am going to make when the Rivendell Knights are released and put these two armies together. Please note these aren't meant to be overly competitive and are more aesthetically put together than statistically :)

Fimbul & Narzug's Hunters:

Fimbul on Fell Warg
6x Hunter Orcs on Fell Wargs (3 with bow and 3 with hand weapons)
6x Fell Wargs

Narzug
12x Hunter Orcs (6 with hand weapons, 4 with bows and 2 with two handed weapons)

500pts

Elrond's Knights:

Elrond Armoured Hobbit Version (heavy armour and horse)
2x Rivendell Knights (Banners)
10x Rivendell Knights (Shields)

492pts

I guess I am trying recreate the two small forces that clashed as the Dwarves escaped to Rivendell. Yes I know Narzug and Hunter Orcs on foot weren't there but I like them anyway. I plan on expanding later adding Azog, Bolg, Yazneg, Lindir and possibly a Rivendell Knight Captain.

So what do you reckon, competition worthy maybe not but they fight a decent bit.
Author:  SouthernDunedain [ Wed Jan 23, 2013 1:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Elrond's Household, Azog's Hunters Armies
2 banners is too many for only one warband of knights. Although I guess you cant get much else in for the points you save. I wouldnt expect the elf list to do amazingly, will be well outnumbered even by elite evil armies.
Author:  Imladris96 [ Wed Jan 23, 2013 1:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Elrond's Household, Azog's Hunters Armies
Yeah I don't really expect them to fight much but if they were to beat someone I would probably ally them with my Galadhrim army. Purely for the looks though I think they will capture the scenes when Elrond returns to Rivendell perfectly :-D
Author:  -Bolg- [ Wed Jan 23, 2013 2:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Elrond's Household, Azog's Hunters Armies
hunterorcarmy is good
don't take banners, drop them both and try to take lindir on horse, free will for elrond :) (nature wrath)
lindir and elrond both on horse with heavy armour and 11 rivendel knights (9 with shields)
Author:  Imladris96 [ Wed Jan 23, 2013 2:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Elrond's Household, Azog's Hunters Armies
Yeah I plan on adding lindir as well as another 12 knights or any infantry like those guards with spears in the movie. Some 3rd age rivendell warriors would be nice...
Author:  GothmogtheWerewolf [ Wed Jan 23, 2013 4:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Elrond's Household, Azog's Hunters Armies
Arg, Never ever give bows to mounted Hunter Orcs!!

Sorry for shouting.
Author:  -Bolg- [ Wed Jan 23, 2013 5:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Elrond's Household, Azog's Hunters Armies
I think he just does it to fill points, it's not strong, but he can't put more more moddels in his army
Author:  GothmogtheWerewolf [ Wed Jan 23, 2013 5:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Elrond's Household, Azog's Hunters Armies
Then give them to the infantry who can actually use it more cost effectively.
Author:  JPRoth1980 [ Wed Jan 23, 2013 6:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Elrond's Household, Azog's Hunters Armies
GothmogtheWerewolf wrote:
Then give them to the infantry who can actually use it more cost effectively.


Except that the infantry will still want to get stuck in, whereas there will be plenty of times where a half-move will get your cavalry out of a sticky situation and still allow them to fire off a few (admittedly lackluster) shots.
Author:  GothmogtheWerewolf [ Wed Jan 23, 2013 8:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Elrond's Household, Azog's Hunters Armies
JPRoth1980 wrote:
GothmogtheWerewolf wrote:
Then give them to the infantry who can actually use it more cost effectively.


Except that the infantry will still want to get stuck in, whereas there will be plenty of times where a half-move will get your cavalry out of a sticky situation and still allow them to fire off a few (admittedly lackluster) shots.


As I have saud at least twice before, not worth it. The infantry shoot bows in turns before the armies meet, then abandon them. Better not using the equipoment then employing risky tactics bcause you gave bows to units you shouldn't have. Or just waste them on the cavalry if you prefer, just do the same. But I don't think it should be done.

Use the pts for two-handed weapons, they can be used more tangibly, and you can still use their hand weapons if you need to.
Author:  Draugluin [ Thu Jan 24, 2013 1:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Elrond's Household, Azog's Hunters Armies
I think he's only using bows at all because that's what the models themselves have.

You can't have more than one banner per hero (unless I missed something). You could take them out and 1 Knight out and bring in a Knight captain. I think that's about the correct points.
Author:  JPRoth1980 [ Thu Jan 24, 2013 2:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Elrond's Household, Azog's Hunters Armies
GothmogtheWerewolf wrote:
As I have saud at least twice before, not worth it. The infantry shoot bows in turns before the armies meet, then abandon them. Better not using the equipoment then employing risky tactics bcause you gave bows to units you shouldn't have. Or just waste them on the cavalry if you prefer, just do the same. But I don't think it should be done.


"Don't think" really isn't a great reason to throw something out. I will say that from my limited experience, I am far more worried about getting my infantry into combat than I am moving half as fast for a 6+ chance to hit.

Ultimately, bows really aren't worth it in either case, but if you're going to take them, they're better on the cavalry where they might be useful (rarely) as opposed to on the infantry where they are counterproductive.

GothmogtheWerewolf wrote:
Use the pts for two-handed weapons, they can be used more tangibly, and you can still use their hand weapons if you need to.


A two-handed weapon provides you with nothing and actively makes the model using it worse. You're now relying on more than twice the original model's cost to handle a single fight and the end result is a 16.7% increased chance of wounding if you win. And, of course, you are equally less likely to win if you're fighting alone.
Author:  Imladris96 [ Thu Jan 24, 2013 9:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Elrond's Household, Azog's Hunters Armies
As I said earlier I really only put together those armies because of a more aesthetic reason. But the help and advice is appreciated.
Author:  janner [ Thu Jan 24, 2013 10:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Elrond's Household, Azog's Hunters Armies
Not sure why banners seem to be poo poo'ed here so often.

They generally repay their cost through the Fight re-rolls. Plus, they look great.

Sounds win-win to me 8)
Author:  GothmogtheWerewolf [ Thu Jan 24, 2013 2:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Elrond's Household, Azog's Hunters Armies
Firstly, the bows are not counterproductive for infantry, you only have to use them in the 1st turn before combat. If you read what I said properly. You should not be pulling any units out to shoot bows.

JPRoth1980 wrote:
A two-handed weapon provides you with nothing and actively makes the model using it worse. You're now relying on more than twice the original model's cost to handle a single fight and the end result is a 16.7% increased chance of wounding if you win. And, of course, you are equally less likely to win if you're fighting alone.

You haven't got my point here either. If they have just hand wepaons, you still want them to outnumber opponants anyway. Everyone does, it i sjust a nice bonus.

If however, your 2-handed weapon Orc is fighting 1 on 1, you have the option to not use the wargear for that turn. You can use the hand weapon that it has on its profile. Additionally, with 2 attacks it should be better than most.
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