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| Old OOP Metals for Captains https://ww.one-ring.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=24986 |
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| Author: | Imladris96 [ Wed Jan 23, 2013 1:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Old OOP Metals for Captains |
Hello I was just wondering does anyone else use old oop metals as captains for their armies? I use my Metal Haldir's Elves with Swords and Haldir's Elves with Bows as Galadhrim Captains and also use the Metal Uruk hai Scouts with shields as captains for Uruk hai scout armies. If anyone else has done this can these be used in tournaments or are you required to buy the commanders box sets for each captains. This isn't a local problem, my brother couldn't care less but for GW tournaments, etc... 
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| Author: | SouthernDunedain [ Wed Jan 23, 2013 2:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Old OOP Metals for Captains |
Have you done any converting to said model to make it look like a captain? And no, a different colour cloak isn't usually enough. The official line from GW is if there is a model, use it or convert one to look as close to the intended model as possible. Anything else is a proxy and not allowed at GW tournaments. |
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| Author: | Imladris96 [ Wed Jan 23, 2013 2:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Old OOP Metals for Captains |
No other than the models pose and design I haven't converted it. I had this idea because in the one rulebook (the bigger mines of moria expensive version) the image under elf captain had a haldirs elf with sword. |
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| Author: | The Horde Lord [ Wed Jan 23, 2013 2:59 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Old OOP Metals for Captains |
I remember in the old Khazad Dum book GW used metal goblins as Captains in most of their example armies. |
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| Author: | SMORG [ Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Old OOP Metals for Captains |
from my experience as long as they are easily recognisable as a captain and made by GW it's fine to use in GW tournaments. conversions with non GW parts are a bit iffy and use of parts from 40k fantasy and such are a strict no no due to licensing Even as far as how "easily recognisable" they are is questionable, the original captains looked more or less the same as any other warrior except they held their swords slightly higher. As long as it's clear to your opponent you should be fine, by no means should you feel the need to buy every model. Bottom line: If it's made by GW for SBG you can use it for GW SBG in tournaments. What you've proposed is fine.  
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| Author: | GothmogtheWerewolf [ Wed Jan 23, 2013 4:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Old OOP Metals for Captains |
The Horde Lord wrote: I remember in the old Khazad Dum book GW used metal goblins as Captains in most of their example armies. That's because the official Goblin Captians weren't released until several years after the regular warriors; plastic and metal, and the first Shaman. They didn't wnat to take more photos all the time either. |
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| Author: | The Horde Lord [ Wed Jan 23, 2013 4:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Old OOP Metals for Captains |
GothmogtheWerewolf wrote: The Horde Lord wrote: I remember in the old Khazad Dum book GW used metal goblins as Captains in most of their example armies. That's because the official Goblin Captians weren't released until several years after the regular warriors; plastic and metal, and the first Shaman. They didn't wnat to take more photos all the time either. Nah, the Khazad-Dum book came long after that. The correct captains (especially the one with bow) is featured frequently as well. |
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| Author: | GothmogtheWerewolf [ Wed Jan 23, 2013 4:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Old OOP Metals for Captains |
I know that book came out long after that but they just copied and pasted their old ones, so they didn't have to do it all again. Same with a few other moels too. |
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| Author: | SouthernDunedain [ Wed Jan 23, 2013 4:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Old OOP Metals for Captains |
Imladris96 wrote: No other than the models pose and design I haven't converted it. I had this idea because in the one rulebook (the bigger mines of moria expensive version) the image under elf captain had a haldirs elf with sword. At the time of publishing the ORB, galadhrim were little more than a side army with few models. Only in the book because of Helms Deep. Gothmog has it right, GW are lazy when it comes to photos. Several of the 'finecast' pictures for newer models are actually the metal versions. Quote: Bottom line: If it's made by GW for SBG you can use it for GW SBG in tournaments. What you've proposed is fine. No it isnt fine. It is a proxy model and therefore not allowed to be used as a captain. Check the most recent rule packs, says it plain and simple in there. Below is a quote straight from the ToS rule pack for 2013 Quote: Proxies
• A “proxy miniature” is a model that is standing in for something else and has not been changed in any way. Examples include using plastic Cadian Shock Troops as Stormtroopers, plastic Tyranid Raveners as Fiends of Slannesh or plastic MORIA Goblins as Gundabad Blackshields |
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| Author: | rumtap [ Wed Jan 23, 2013 10:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Old OOP Metals for Captains |
I believe the intent of the proxy rule is about using a completely different model to represent something it isn't. You could not use a Rohan captain as a minas tirith captain but you could use minats tirith warrior as a minas tirith capatian provided it was easily recognised as such. My own thing is captains get gold trim on weapons and helmets, rank and file are silver. Simple and stands out. |
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| Author: | GothmogtheWerewolf [ Wed Jan 23, 2013 11:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Old OOP Metals for Captains |
rumtap wrote: I believe the intent of the proxy rule is about using a completely different model to represent something it isn't. SNIP My own thing is captains get gold trim on weapons and helmets, rank and file are silver. Simple and stands out. Using a WoMT to represent a Captian is proxying because a Warrior is not a Captain. And you should really convert them. Just painting gold trims doesn't make them stand out enough unless you only have about 4 warriors, as otherwise he looks in the exact same pose as one of your warrior variants, which should only be done as a last resort as it is lazyness really imo. |
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| Author: | rumtap [ Thu Jan 24, 2013 12:27 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Old OOP Metals for Captains |
I disagree with Gothmog and I'll leave it at that. |
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| Author: | Lord Hurin [ Thu Jan 24, 2013 1:45 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Old OOP Metals for Captains |
To me this seems like GW pressing everyone to get the wildly expensive new Command boxes. Many of their older 2-figure command sets are no longer being made and I don't particularly need as many hornblowers, banners and whatever else as I do Captains. |
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| Author: | rumtap [ Thu Jan 24, 2013 3:21 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Old OOP Metals for Captains |
I agree, it's why i have no problem with upgrading a warrior to a captain even if it is just simply a different paint job. not everyone can afford the correct models nor does everyone have the skill to do a conversion. It's about having fun isn't it? If you can tell the difference and they look the part then just get on with the game! |
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| Author: | Imladris96 [ Thu Jan 24, 2013 9:28 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Old OOP Metals for Captains |
Well these are the only metal captains (other than haldir and the banner bearer) in the army so they do stand out and what really annoys me is that GW know you need heroes for warbands and in smaller games I'm not going to take 3 or 4 100/150 point heroes yet they only really give you an option of a captain in a $66 set and I'm not going to buy 3 sets of those just for the captains (I don't think I'll be using 4 Banners 4 hornblowers 4 stormcallers either) |
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| Author: | Imladris96 [ Thu Jan 24, 2013 9:31 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Old OOP Metals for Captains |
So I guess what's being said is no for GW tournaments. That's fine then nobody really asks why they are captains when I play they sort of figure it out and know. These are GW LOTR minis as well so I don't usually like the idea of using other companies minis as substitutes, could be just me though. |
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| Author: | muppetslayer101 [ Fri Jan 25, 2013 2:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Old OOP Metals for Captains |
the simple solution to this problem is/; if you do not have the model you cannot use its profile. half the fun of collecting an army IMO is the saving up for the models as it makes using them all the more fun. on a personal note, i have played in a GW GT with southern dunadain and one of our opponents was using a rohan captain as grimbold and warriors as helmingas (the warriors were not differentiated from the normal warriors in his army which made the game rather confusing) he also had riders of rohan with shilds proxying as outriders. how this ary didnt get picked up by the event organisers im not sure but it was a bit of a slap in the face as i and Southy had made a concerted effort to save up and buy all the correct models with the correct wargear for our armies and it was a shame that our opponent didnt recipricate our efforts. to me its tabletop etiquet to have no proxys. (appologies if there are any horrible spelling errors) |
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| Author: | Lord Hurin [ Fri Jan 25, 2013 3:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Old OOP Metals for Captains |
I have no issue spending money on miniatures I need or want to use. What I can't abide though is paying for two or three ones I'll never use. In any of the Command boxes there is at least one mini I don't need. How many Moria Goblin Captains does someone need for even a 750 point army? Now, how many drums do they need for the same size force? I know it's different for War of the Ring, but for SBG (which they are focusing on more heavily now) it's just asinine. |
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| Author: | SouthernDunedain [ Fri Jan 25, 2013 4:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Old OOP Metals for Captains |
Muppetslayer101 wrote: (appologies if there are any horrible spelling errors) The whole post was one giant spelling error mate  Lord Hurin wrote: I have no issue spending money on miniatures I need or want to use. What I can't abide though is paying for two or three ones I'll never use. In any of the Command boxes there is at least one mini I don't need. Any models I receive that I dont need (which is rare) I tend to trade off or sell on ebay etc so I can get the models I do need. I'm sure there are many people on here who want certain models from the command sets but dont want to pay full price but would be willing to trade. Anyway, think this is going off topic. Bottom line: If your opponent agrees, fine but do not take them to GW tournaments. PS As muppet says, it is a kick in the teeth when someone turns up with a proxy army. I've played a gondor army which was plastic WoMT that turned out to be citadel guard and fountain court with a MoM Boromir pretending to be Boromir CotWT w/ banner. Tell me that doesnt make you just a little annoyed. |
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| Author: | Lord Hurin [ Fri Jan 25, 2013 4:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Old OOP Metals for Captains |
I think there are many more interesting ways to represent Captains and other command models. For axample, I'm using a Citadel Guard with a new unhelmeted head, Faramir's sword and a KoMT shield as a Captain of Minas Tirith. I might use Bilbo of the White Tower's idea for Isildur with a CoMT head as a Knight of the White Tower. Would that be an issue? |
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