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1000pt tournament army - Grey Company/Rohan (?)
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Author:  Thermo [ Tue Feb 19, 2013 2:18 pm ]
Post subject:  1000pt tournament army - Grey Company/Rohan (?)
So I'm pretty certain I'm going to be entering the Hobbit Tournament in Stockport this April and would really like everyone's opinions on these options, their strengths, weaknesses and general tactics as it'll be my first ever tournament! You've all been incredibly supportive so far, so thank you!

The tournament requires 1000pts good (which I'll focus on here) and 1000pts evil (which I don't have but will be borrowing models etc)

By April, I'll be able to either field a 1000pts "Grey Company" force or a 50/50 Grey company + all mounted Rohan force.

Option 1
W1 - Aragorn/Strider (horse, bow, armour, Anduril)
W2 - Mounted Ranger of the North
W3 - Mounted Ranger of the North
W4 - Mounted Ranger of the North
W5 - Mounted Ranger of the North
W6 - Mounted Ranger of the North
W7 - Mounted Ranger of the North

W8 - Halbarad
12 Rangers of Arnor (spears)

W9 - Arathorn
12 Rangers of Arnor (spears)

W10 - Malbeth
11 Warriors of Arnor (spears/shields)
1 Warrior of Arnor with banner

OR

W1 - Halbarad
12 Rangers of Arnor (spears)

W2 - Arathorn
12 Rangers of Arnor (spears)

W3 - Ranger of the North (spear)
W4 - Ranger of the North (spear)
W5 - Ranger of the North (spear)
W6 - Ranger of the North (spear)
W7 - Ranger of the North (spear)
W8 - Ranger of the North (spear)

W9 - Erkenbrand
8 Westfold Redshields (throwing spears)
1 x Mounted Rohan Royal Guard (throwing spears)
1 x Son of Eorl

W10 - Eomer (heavy armour, throwing spears) MotR
8 Westfold Redshields (throwing spears)
1 x Mounted Rohan Royal Guard (throwing spears)
1 x Son of Eorl


Breakdown, critiques, tactics all greatly welcomed!
Author:  ste271276 [ Tue Feb 19, 2013 2:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1000pt tournament army - Grey Company/Rohan (?)
Ooooo very similar to mine, lol.
Im considering a Gondor army just to be a bit different but may still go Grey Co. lol
Author:  Thermo [ Tue Feb 19, 2013 2:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1000pt tournament army - Grey Company/Rohan (?)
ste271276 wrote:
Ooooo very similar to mine, lol.
Im considering a Gondor army just to be a bit different but may still go Grey Co. lol


Haha why not! I think we should all use some of these Thursday night meetings as training, really give each other good feedback regarding the games we play so we're battle ready!
Author:  SuicidalMarsbar [ Tue Feb 19, 2013 3:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1000pt tournament army - Grey Company/Rohan (?)
Probelm with mixing GC with Rohan is that Rohan will naturally want to get into combat, so the amount of targets you can shoot is reduced by the fact they will engaged with Rohan.
Author:  Thermo [ Tue Feb 19, 2013 3:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1000pt tournament army - Grey Company/Rohan (?)
SuicidalMarsbar wrote:
Probelm with mixing GC with Rohan is that Rohan will naturally want to get into combat, so the amount of targets you can shoot is reduced by the fact they will engaged with Rohan.


Hmm fair comment, although the fact that every model in the army that can have a bow, does and therefore everyone can shoot must count for something? Then the cavalry give the tactical flexibility and hard hitting power for the counter or when you can pick your combats (try to ensure superiority before committing the charge)

Of course, no point trying to have a set single dimension strategy but all those bows could be pretty initimidating, even with the new rules, and scenario dependent, whittling down the enemy and using the cavalry to counter where they do outnumber would be the general aim I guess?

What do you think? :o
Author:  ste271276 [ Tue Feb 19, 2013 3:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1000pt tournament army - Grey Company/Rohan (?)
There are two reasons GC Are my favs, first is I just like the idea of them and always have from reading tolkien in my younger days, secondly because of the no bow limit rule with extra rangers/dunedain. No other force can have this rule and that itself used in the right way must be an awesome tool to have at your disposal.
Author:  LordElrond [ Tue Feb 19, 2013 3:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1000pt tournament army - Grey Company/Rohan (?)
My thought is that you'll probably keep your rangers back and charge with your mounted Rohan cavalry

This will leave a 500pt cavalry force charging at a 1000pt force, so you may be swarmed and overpowered quickly

Just a quick observational thought, not necessarily true



Try it out with Ste

Although I still think I prefer list 2

Try them both out and see which one works best and which one you like best
Author:  ste271276 [ Tue Feb 19, 2013 3:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1000pt tournament army - Grey Company/Rohan (?)
Not to labour this point and not saying anyone else is wrong and im right by a long stretch, but the way the bow limit is worded in the rules it doesnt say anything about contingencies it refers to the army as a whole from what I can make out.
Am I allowed to type the rule word for word on here or not?

Surely if it as you guys say it is it would have made more sense to say a third of each warband????

Am I just confusing myself here? lol
Author:  SouthernDunedain [ Tue Feb 19, 2013 3:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1000pt tournament army - Grey Company/Rohan (?)
Bow limit is worked out by each contingent. So say you had a force with gondor, high elves and fiefdoms, each of those could have 1/3 bows.
Author:  SuicidalMarsbar [ Tue Feb 19, 2013 3:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1000pt tournament army - Grey Company/Rohan (?)
Dunedain is right, you cant have 24 dwarfs with shields and ally in 12 elf archers for example, you'd have to have 8 dwarf archers and 4 elf ones.
Author:  ste271276 [ Tue Feb 19, 2013 4:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1000pt tournament army - Grey Company/Rohan (?)
My heads in bits, lol
Suicidal Marshal, on my Gondor list I should be ok then if I lose 2 rangers? Is that right? That would be a third of all gondorian type models.
Author:  Thermo [ Wed Feb 20, 2013 11:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1000pt tournament army - Grey Company/Rohan (?)
No critique or suggestions guys regarding the two force suggestions?

Some help and comment would be much appreciated!
Author:  Hashut's Blessing [ Wed Feb 20, 2013 1:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1000pt tournament army - Grey Company/Rohan (?)
I'd say list two personally. That many bows, plus some maneauvrability and the bonus of cavalry charges will be potent. Tricky to pull off at first - you might need to remove their faster elements first as well and we'll need to teach you cavalry rules (easily done).

For me, personally, I'm not that fond of the Westfold Redsields upgrade - but that's because Fight doesn't come into the game enough for my liking (I sometimes wonder if one-on-one fights should be roll and add your fight value...), but I can't see where else to spend those 16pts because of the warband limits: potentially drop a few points elsewhere and take a banner? But, yeah, pretty solid looking list as far as I can tell and will do better than list 1, IMO.
Author:  LordElrond [ Wed Feb 20, 2013 2:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1000pt tournament army - Grey Company/Rohan (?)
You could do an all mounted army with aragorn and your mounted rotn + Rohan?
Author:  SouthernDunedain [ Wed Feb 20, 2013 6:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1000pt tournament army - Grey Company/Rohan (?)
Hashut's Blessing wrote:
For me, personally, I'm not that fond of the Westfold Redsields upgrade - but that's because Fight doesn't come into the game enough for my liking


As a gondor cavalry user, I can tell you that having F4 or higher is SO important for cavalry. There is so much evil stuff that has F4 now that it isnt even funny. If you opponent who is using uruks, watchers of karna backed up with spears, you can kiss your cavalry a swift goodbye.

Redshields make RoR worth taking (only by a little bit though).

@thermo, The second list you have to be careful with. It is very tempting to send the cav out on a glory mission and they quickly become isolated unless you are careful (which usually leads to them being shot :-X )

I would stick with a tried and trusted simple list for your first tournament, one you have had the most practice with and know how to use it properly. I would also drop aragorn and take the twins mounted. Much more effective in combat than aragorn and you can take more rangers (which the twins can lead). Your numbers are pretty low.

Also, whats you plan if someone brings the shadowlord or casts blinding light?
Author:  Hashut's Blessing [ Wed Feb 20, 2013 7:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1000pt tournament army - Grey Company/Rohan (?)
SouthernDunedain - very valid, but my experience is different to anyone else's in that Fight values almost never get introduced into gamees, lol. The die/dice roll and one side wins, ha ha ha. The thing is, I can't see much else to do with the 16 points, so he may as well keep the F4 and, as you say, in 1k it probably does come in handy.

I was also alluding to (but never said it), that you need to be wise with the cavalry -you want to play them as a guerilla hit and run force: harrying flanks and peppering key targets with arrows (whether characters, Shadowlord/Gandalf, spearmen, archers, squishier targets or whomever) and only charging small numbers or use them to distrct your opponent and take them off course. Basically, it's a list that isn't straight and easy to play, but it should be more effective than the first one in most cases.

Lastly, never forget the scenario - an all-foot army might struggle in reconnoitre (the first one we played), whereas the Rohirrim can slow the enemy down or get off the opposite edge (also a quick way to get the enemy leader in range and do a wound or more) for victory points.
Author:  Thermo [ Wed Feb 20, 2013 8:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1000pt tournament army - Grey Company/Rohan (?)
Quote:
I'd say list two personally. That many bows, plus some maneauvrability and the bonus of cavalry charges will be potent. Tricky to pull off at first - you might need to remove their faster elements first as well and we'll need to teach you cavalry rules (easily done).


Interesting! I think I'll pick up the rules pretty quickly... mastering them on the other hand might take longer! By all accounts, they can be tough to play. Might start practicing this Thursday...

Quote:
For me, personally, I'm not that fond of the Westfold Redsields upgrade - but that's because Fight doesn't come into the game enough for my liking (I sometimes wonder if one-on-one fights should be roll and add your fight value...), but I can't see where else to spend those 16pts because of the warband limits: potentially drop a few points elsewhere and take a banner? But, yeah, pretty solid looking list as far as I can tell and will do better than list 1, IMO.


Surely it's worth the extra single point? I'm sure in our game on Thursday fight value came into the equation a couple of times, helping the higher fight rangers win some of the key combats.

Rolling and adding fight value does sound like a good alternative though, anyone playtested that?

Why will it perform better than list 1 out of interest?

LordElrond wrote:
You could do an all mounted army with aragorn and your mounted rotn + Rohan?


Sounds like that could be quite tough to pull off! Then I'd really have a very low model count too I think :(

Quote:
As a gondor cavalry user, I can tell you that having F4 or higher is SO important for cavalry. There is so much evil stuff that has F4 now that it isnt even funny. If you opponent who is using uruks, watchers of karna backed up with spears, you can kiss your cavalry a swift goodbye.

Redshields make RoR worth taking (only by a little bit though)


*note to avoid high fight models backed up with spears...

Quote:
@thermo, The second list you have to be careful with. It is very tempting to send the cav out on a glory mission and they quickly become isolated unless you are careful (which usually leads to them being shot :-X )


I can imagine that it's a tricky one to balance. I have some ideas in my own mind, like you suggest, to attempt to avoid enemy shooting and also use them only where the odds are favourable, more in countering roles. I guess I'll only know when I start playing with them more. All your advice is invaluable though guys!

Quote:
I would stick with a tried and trusted simple list for your first tournament, one you have had the most practice with and know how to use it properly. I would also drop aragorn and take the twins mounted. Much more effective in combat than aragorn and you can take more rangers (which the twins can lead). Your numbers are pretty low.


Interesting suggestion! I better get on the look out for the twins models then!

What's the issue with Aragorn in particular? My thoughts were that with the mighty hero rule, he'd be able to heroic move the mounted ranger cavalry in and out of combats to try and guarantee the charge (failing that, there are 6 others with a might point each if needed) which seems to be a critical thing for cavalry when reading here?

Quote:
Also, whats you plan if someone brings the shadowlord or casts blinding light?
[/quote]

That's what you guys are here for :twisted: Ha, in all seriousness, I have a few ideas but they're not based on experience so tactics and suggestions welcome. The above prevent shooting correct?
Author:  Hashut's Blessing [ Wed Feb 20, 2013 10:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1000pt tournament army - Grey Company/Rohan (?)
My view is that 16pts can buy two more men, which not only increases wound count, number of attacks, etc, but also ups your "broken" limit by one. But in our game on Thursday, I remember less than a handful of times that it came into it and usually it was a hero against a normal warrior and +1F wouldn't have made a difference (except for one combat). The other times, it was the -1 penalty due to the two-handed weapon rule that caused me to lose the fight, where a drawn roll would've meant comparing Fight values and I'd have won by 2 or 3 pips each time. Lie I say, this is my experience - it almost never comes into play and when it does, +1F wouldn't matter anyway: but most people find it does make a difference. Just not me, lol...

I'm keen to playtest that method, but I think it creates a problem when it comes to multiple combatants and special weapons etc, so it could take some ironing out, but a fight of one against one should be fine (although some characters would auto-win fights: but they kinda should... A lonely goblin against Gil-galad shouldn't really best him in combat.).



It'll perform better than list one for the simplest of reasons and the hardest to master - maneauvrability. The Grey Company list is very static and defencive, but by adding the mobility of the Rohirrim, you instantly add options and a new tatic, as well as diversity to your performance style. The more options you have, the more things the enemy has to deal with or tries to counter, potentially screwing up elsewhere. Basically, you're harder to second-guess as well as having more choice of what to do.

Shadowlord I think has a bubble of elven cloaks or no shooting and Gandalf's Blining Light means you need 6 to hit with shooting, if memory serves.
Author:  SouthernDunedain [ Wed Feb 20, 2013 10:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1000pt tournament army - Grey Company/Rohan (?)
Both shadowlord and Blinding light means all shooting attacks on targets within 6" hit on 6's
Author:  Thermo [ Fri Feb 22, 2013 3:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1000pt tournament army - Grey Company/Rohan (?)
How about the following revision to first list guys (if I go all Grey Company)??

W1 - Elladan and Elrohir (mounted, heavy armour, elf bows)
12 Warriors of Arnor (spears, shields)

W2 - Mounted Ranger of the North
W3 - Mounted Ranger of the North
W4 - Mounted Ranger of the North
W5 - Mounted Ranger of the North
W6 - Mounted Ranger of the North
W7 - Mounted Ranger of the North

W8 - Halbarad (spear)
12 Rangers of Arnor (spears)

W9 - Arathorn75
12 Rangers of Arnor (spears)

W10 Malbeth80
12 Warriors of Arnor (spears/shields)

Although I like the idea of a small cavalry force where each model has might, effectively (although not literally) led by an Aragorn/Strider mounted, with the expendable will point to pretty much guarantee that that cavalry force can charge every combat, the problem comes with having to ally him in from the fellowship since Aragorn, Isildur's Heir from the Arnor lists cannot have a horse as wargear. So even dropping Anduril at it's points value, you can't get those 12 extra models as he can't lead your warbands.

I could do it and put an extra 3 Rangers of the North in on foot instead and I have the mounted strider model and not the twins, but what are everyone else's observations?

edit: I suppose even combined, the twins have 6 might points. With the 6 mounted Rangers of the North, that's 12 might points for effectively a cavalry contigent, which would still pretty much guarantee it got the charge if they lost priority... thoughts?
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