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The beginning of a Moria horde
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Author:  ima_lobster [ Fri Jan 03, 2014 12:17 pm ]
Post subject:  The beginning of a Moria horde
Hey everyone,

I started creating a basic Isengard list earlier last year and got it to somewhere around 500+ pts. However, after some recent clashes with my room mate (between 500 - 2000 points matches, where I used many of his spare evil models to make the difference), I noticed that I either did not know how to correctly handle a high strength, relatively low numbered force well, or he was simply implementing greater tactics to overcome me. Although he is beginning to specialise in Dwarves, he usually fields a mixed Good army.

Anyway, because of my recent failures, I have decided to start an army of Moria - who I originally wanted to collect from the start but can't remember why I didn't. I enjoy the art of swarming in many other games and feel that Moria will definitely provide me with the hordes necessary for this.

I have read on here basic army lists for Moria up to around 500 - 600 pts, and I was wondering what you good people suggest for me to begin with. What is a must have in a 500 pts list? And where should I go from there if I expand it to a 1000 or 2000 pts list?

The warbands he loves to bring to the table are;

King of the Dead
12 x Warriors of the Dead

Beregond
12 x Rangers

Captain Boromir
6 x Fountain Guard with Shields
6 x MT Warriors with shields and spears

King Aragorn
(anything)

Radagast
(anything)

Thorin Oakenshield
12 x Erebor warriors with shields and spears

Thanks heaps guys
Author:  Sithious [ Fri Jan 03, 2014 4:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The beginning of a Moria horde
Don't despair about your isengard force. He is bringing high fight values and high defense. So that means he is winning more fights, while at the same time making you wound less when you win a fight. Not to mention bringing two power house fighting heroes with a lot of might, the other heroes can easily support from the side lines and be effective while Aragorn and Boromir hold the line steady.

So you need fodder to tie up his heroes, You have to be careful as any heroes you bring will be under the eye of his rangers. Knowing what his strengths are, you can plan against it. With as many points as you are playing, you can afford to bring some heavy hitters yourself while still filling the middle with as many cheap goblins as you can get your hands on. I am not offering a list advice, but you should start looking at the special rules of the wraiths, look at the stats of some of the tough evil power creatures, and see what may appeal to you or work against what you are facing. Unfairly you are facing a wider diversity of heroes then most matches do, most games you have one or two to deal with, but you have 5 guys that, you can't ignore all of them.
Good luck
Author:  JamesR [ Fri Jan 03, 2014 5:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The beginning of a Moria horde
You also have the annoyance of not only is he crossing faction lines and timelines lol. I'm a faction purist so to see it makes me sick.

Bring lots of Goblins, some shamans and some good monsters to rend his high defense units
Author:  Galanur [ Fri Jan 03, 2014 5:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The beginning of a Moria horde
his army right there its around 1307/1350pts

In moria you could just sick him with goblins... 150ish goblins more or so lol
If you mix goblin town the better although you might get bored to some point.

Heres an attempt of 1350pts more or so what you got there as a list.

Warband 1
Goblin king
12 goblin warriors

Warband 2
Grinnah the goblin
12 goblin warriors

Warband 3
Goblin captain
12 goblin warriors

Warband 4
Goblin captain
12 goblin warriors

Warband 5
Groblog
6 Gundabad blackshields
6 moria goblins with spear


Warband 6
Moria Goblin Shaman
6 Gundabad blackshields
6 Moria goblins with spear


Warband 7
Moria Goblin Shaman
6 Gundabad blackshields
6 Moria goblins with spear


Warband 8
Gundabad blackshield Shaman
9 Gundabad blackshields
Cave troll


Warband 9
Cave drake


Warband 10
The dwimmerlaik
12 orc warriors with shield

total: 1350pts
might: 17 might
models: 116
breaks on: 58

its not an horde army, but got several bodies
Author:  whafrog [ Fri Jan 03, 2014 6:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The beginning of a Moria horde
You can go 1/2 horde, in which case Durburz is essential for his 12" standfast, as are Shamans for their fury. You have so many points you can then toss in a fair share of monsters. Nothing wrong with cave trolls with the new rules, a spider queen, and a shade to make him cry.
Author:  ima_lobster [ Fri Jan 03, 2014 9:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The beginning of a Moria horde
Wow thanks for the input guys, I'm relatively new to this forum and its great to see your responses so fast!

Sithious wrote:
So you need fodder to tie up his heroes, You have to be careful as any heroes you bring will be under the eye of his rangers. Knowing what his strengths are, you can plan against it. With as many points as you are playing, you can afford to bring some heavy hitters yourself while still filling the middle with as many cheap goblins as you can get your hands on. I am not offering a list advice, but you should start looking at the special rules of the wraiths, look at the stats of some of the tough evil power creatures, and see what may appeal to you or work against what you are facing. Unfairly you are facing a wider diversity of heroes then most matches do, most games you have one or two to deal with, but you have 5 guys that, you can't ignore all of them.


I know it is painful to watch 2 ferals, a pikeman and Saruman all dying to a single Aragorn charge. Even worse when a single channelled panic steed (with an annoying 2+ dice roll) when take out 5 Morgul Knights or Wargs in one turn. I tried the Umbar Wratih last match, however he never got a chance at enemy heroes so his combat mimicry was wasted. I am tempted by the Tainted now but still unsure if I want to field any in the future.

JamesR wrote:
You also have the annoyance of not only is he crossing faction lines and timelines lol. I'm a faction purist so to see it makes me sick.

Bring lots of Goblins, some shamans and some good monsters to rend his high defense units


Haha I agree with you on the faction purity. What monsters do you suggest? Cave trolls or bring out the big guns with a drake or Balrog? Also looking at the rules for bat swarms, they look pretty handy in a fight against a hero, where their FV is simply nothing.

Galanur wrote:
his army right there its around 1307/1350pts

In moria you could just sick him with goblins... 150ish goblins more or so lol
If you mix goblin town the better although you might get bored to some point.

Heres an attempt of 1350pts more or so what you got there as a list.

Warband 1
Goblin king
12 goblin warriors

Warband 2
Grinnah the goblin
12 goblin warriors

Warband 3
Goblin captain
12 goblin warriors

Warband 4
Goblin captain
12 goblin warriors

Warband 5
Groblog
6 Gundabad blackshields
6 moria goblins with spear


Warband 6
Moria Goblin Shaman
6 Gundabad blackshields
6 Moria goblins with spear


Warband 7
Moria Goblin Shaman
6 Gundabad blackshields
6 Moria goblins with spear


Warband 8
Gundabad blackshield Shaman
9 Gundabad blackshields
Cave troll


Warband 9
Cave drake


Warband 10
The dwimmerlaik
12 orc warriors with shield

total: 1350pts
might: 17 might
models: 116
breaks on: 58

its not an horde army, but got several bodies


Yeah I am very happy to include Goblin Town as the King is very solid and the chittering hordes rule is great - pretty much basic moria goblins except they have spears without spending that extra point.

I noticed you didn't include any moria warriors with shields or bows, why is this? Are they just not worth the points? Also I see you put a cave drake in there, would you recommend that over say a dragon? I know you may have been working with points there but what would you say is most effective?

whafrog wrote:
You can go 1/2 horde, in which case Durburz is essential for his 12" standfast, as are Shamans for their fury. You have so many points you can then toss in a fair share of monsters. Nothing wrong with cave trolls with the new rules, a spider queen, and a shade to make him cry.


I have seen shades mentioned a lot on this forum but after looking through all the sourcebooks I can not find them, nor on the GW product page. What are they? ( I played WOTR many years ago but can't remember them back then either).

Once again thanks heaps guys! Also should mention terror inducing units won't be as effective in my list as I forgot to mention he normally fields Erkinbrand and that damned horn of his to each match - giving +2 courage to everyone.
Author:  whafrog [ Fri Jan 03, 2014 11:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The beginning of a Moria horde
ima_lobster wrote:
Haha I agree with you on the faction purity. What monsters do you suggest? Cave trolls or bring out the big guns with a drake or Balrog? Also looking at the rules for bat swarms, they look pretty handy in a fight against a hero, where their FV is simply nothing.


Bats + trolls = hero killer. Heck, even bats + <insert any goblin hero> do pretty well. My favorite use of bats though is with Druzhag...they have enough wounds they can withstand the strain of his spell, and become pretty ferocious when enraged.

ima_lobster wrote:
I have seen shades mentioned a lot on this forum but after looking through all the sourcebooks I can not find them, nor on the GW product page.


Shades are in the Moria & Angmar book, page 34. Among other things, they reduce opponent's dice rolls in the fight within a certain range. They're expensive, which is why they only really work with a horde. But the combo of that plus a Shaman with channelled Fury makes a pretty solid fighting group.

You could also consider a "budget wraith". The named wraiths are pretty expensive, but it's amazing how useful and potent a cheap wraith is.
Author:  IntLemon [ Sat Jan 04, 2014 12:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The beginning of a Moria horde
I can see Gundabad Shaman working well in an army like this. Qua-bam! Qua-bam! And suddenly Aragorn and Co. are reduced to weaponless, fumbling fools. The Dwimmerlaik is good for frustrating enemy Heroic Actions etc., which with the number of named heroes your mate has, are probably being used a lot ( I think it is the Dwimmerlaik which has that rule :/)

Still, I'm a noob and I've never played goblins.
Author:  Galanur [ Sat Jan 04, 2014 1:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The beginning of a Moria horde
the dwimmerlaik on a nearby enemy heroe each time they use a might fate and will on a 4+ they use the double points...
Author:  JamesR [ Sat Jan 04, 2014 2:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The beginning of a Moria horde
At that point level take some bats and the Watcher! They work great together. The Watcher is an absolute army destroyer!

He can pop up any-where on the map that you want him to, combine a bat swarm or magic to lower any Fight 6 hero's fight and you will win the fight every time, and you'll kill easily with 6 Strength 6 Rending Attacks! Bye bye Aragorn! lol
Also you get D6 shooting attacks each turn, which is awesome but its the special of them that is so valuable. If your opponent is in combat with a hero you need just shoot into the combat and reguardless of if you wound or not you can drag the enemy out of base contact and into contact with the Watcher! Best Body-guard Ever! lol
Author:  LordoftheBrownRing [ Sat Jan 04, 2014 3:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The beginning of a Moria horde
Honestly with you going up against thorin for the love of god throw in easterlings or harad or something that doesnt die to Orcrist by Thorin breathing with it in his hand
Author:  JamesR [ Sat Jan 04, 2014 3:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The beginning of a Moria horde
LordoftheBrownRing wrote:
Honestly with you going up against thorin for the love of god throw in easterlings or harad or something that doesnt die to Orcrist by Thorin breathing with it in his hand


Won't matter if he takes the Watcher. Thorin will die in one turn

Edit: also any Wargs, spiders, bats, trolls, Dwellers, the Watcher, Balrog, Dragon, and Cave Drake are unaffected by Thorin's special w Orcrist so there's plenty of "in house" options
Author:  Constantine [ Sat Jan 04, 2014 9:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The beginning of a Moria horde
Welcome to the forum,

I am -for the past year at least- strictly a Moria player; I find, always dependent on the opponent's force, that a mix of horde tactics when coupled with units capable of delivering damage to opponent's strongest heroes/units, is the best combination.

I suggest the following:

Never include Goblin Bowmen. Their role makes them inimical to maximizing the effect of your swarm. Additionally they low defense means they'll be dying in droves.

Durburz, Goblin Shamans, Groblog work in synergy; even at 500 points matches you can include Durburz, and Groblog along with Shamans; keep Groblog away from the fight and use his store of Might for the endgame.

The frontline should be a combination of Gundabad Goblins, Prowlers (whose throwing weapons shouldn't be underestimated).

The best monster choice even in mid point games is the Cave Troll. If coupled with a bat swarm he can be extremely lethal. Save your trolls for the enemy heroes and priority targets. You should always include a Cave Troll (except in low-points games).

Don't use your Bat Swarms foolhardily (as I was doing in my first games with them). They should be used only in conjunction with something else, unless the situation makes it imperative to do otherwise.

For games over 500 points you should start thinking of Drummers (the Gundabad are the better choice), and Druzhag and his arachnids.
Author:  rickybobby17b [ Tue Jan 21, 2014 10:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The beginning of a Moria horde
I love the blackshields for a front line support them with spears take a troll or two and basically what everyone else said is solid advice, although I've never played a game over 1000 points damn that's a lot of units
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