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Some help with Dunlendings/Isengard vs Dwarves/Gondor
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Author:  Darthvegeta800 [ Sun Jan 26, 2014 4:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Some help with Dunlendings/Isengard vs Dwarves/Gondor
Been cleaning and preparing a massive force of Dunlendings.
Well... massive. Far larger than typically fielded I presume.
I should have 400 to 500 pts i suspect of Dunlendings. Led by their named hero and some captains but i plan to make my mirror Isengard force compatible. So I'm hoping to build 2 400pts armies for both and then mix-mash as i go.

However at the store I picked up a boxset of Uruk Hai Warriors. I got a command blister with banner, captain and shaman. And I have 3-4 Uruk Crossbowmen. A Nazgul. And the 'Ambush at Amon Hen' Lurtz (plus some scouts in that box)
Should I go scout-heavy or warrior heavy or mix the two? Thematically the scouts would go well with the Dunlendings to simulate the raiding but i already have some warriors and they do look pretty epic.
Also should I get more crossbowmen? If possibly i'd like to avoid it having gotten them at a discount at the local store. The current blisterpices are rather... 'excessive'.

-----

As for Dwarves/Gondor. I got 24 rangers in a discounted box and a Gondor Command set and the Cirion + some other guy blister + Boromir
I'll be enlarging them with whatever i get from someone i know.

For the Dwarves though...
I already got a Gimil (Amon Hen), 6 Iron Guards, 2 Banners, 2 captains and 6 archers. What would you guys advice for a nice thematic little warband build on that? And preferably a bit balanced against the Dunlendings.
Author:  THE-WHITE-HAND [ Sun Jan 26, 2014 5:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Some help with Dunlendings/Isengard vs Dwarves/Gondor
i can help with the isengard lists, i would say thryden wolfsbane is excellent! his big might will and fate for so little points is well worth the points above his lesser captains, especially with his 12 inch stand fast and other special rule. chopping up heroes left and right! as for the uruk hai, scouts tend to be killed by most on 5+, HOWEVER, warriors are mainly killed on a 6+, making them die twice as less than scouts for only 1 extra point! well worth it i think. i would use the crossbows you have as they can at least threaten enemy heroes and elite troops if not kill any, forcing your opponent to consider changing his tactics. i would have got 4 more, however, if you do not want to, it will not make a huge difference in the game. uruks with shield are a must have, but if you want a fluffy list then you can still include the scouts with lurtz, however they will not be as effective as warriors with a shaman. you should include the shaman and use his channeled fury with uruk warriors, hide him behind your shield wall of warriors and watch your opponent crash into it. i would personally consider using some feral uruk hai or beresekers (only need 4 really, so 1 pack from the store) for some extra force and dice rolls when attacking as the feral have an extra attack over warriors and berserkers are lethal in combat. that is not to say you cant make an effective isengard force without them of course.
Author:  VandalCabbage [ Sun Jan 26, 2014 5:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Some help with Dunlendings/Isengard vs Dwarves/Gondor
Have you considered Vrashku? He's supposed to be incredibly deadly and could be a justification for combining warriors and scouts. Crossbows will not always kill but are psychologically impairing for basically anyone except dwarves. I agree with THE-WHITE-HAND about thydan Wolfsbane - serious hero killer.

As for dwarves / gondor, I would suggest getting some regular peeps, especially for Gondor, as you have no way of using those rangers without regular troops. Though you have a quite nice Osgiliath theme set up there, with Boromir, Cirion and Madril.
Gimli is a combat tank at his points; I personally consider him even more dangerous than Dwalin because at D8 he's almost indestructible. He's personally given me more trouble than basically every other named hero in this game put together, and I consider it a victory just to kill him regardless of what else happens. Him and six Iron guard could easily demolish an entire enemy warband, but the prevailence of str 4 means that I will recommend finding some normal shield dwarves or better yet Khazad Guard for him to lead.
Author:  Darthvegeta800 [ Sun Jan 26, 2014 5:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Some help with Dunlendings/Isengard vs Dwarves/Gondor
Some serious food for thought :)

I think i'll get 2 boxset of Warriors. And the blister with 2 Uruk heroes.
...maybe i'll get 1 boxset of Scouts just for theme. Maybe...

For Gondor i presume my fiend will have basic gondor warriors as he's got a sizeale force. And thematically you guessed my thoughts ;) Osgiliath!

Dwarves... besides Gimli what other hero do you like?
A Dwarven King to represent Gimli's lord?
Or one of those named heroes?
Also what do you all think of that duo of Dwarf heroes. The archer and the swordfighter?

Is Mauhur worth getting?
And is there an Uruk Captain model with a shield/armored look? All of them seem scouts beyond the command set one but he has no shield.
Author:  VandalCabbage [ Sun Jan 26, 2014 6:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Some help with Dunlendings/Isengard vs Dwarves/Gondor
Than you're probs fine for Gondor.

The older Balin (from Durin's Folk list) is also quite deadly, and better for his points than a dwarf king.

Not sure about Murin and Drar, they seem a bit expensive.

Mauhur is good for the attacks value and the speed bonus for scouts, but I consider Vrashku deadlier from what I've seen of him and his profile, sweeping models away from a distance easily; if you want a cap with shield you could always convert one from a normal warrior. Conversions are tricky if you're just starting out but they can be very rewarding, make no mistake.
Author:  Darthvegeta800 [ Sun Jan 26, 2014 6:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Some help with Dunlendings/Isengard vs Dwarves/Gondor
VandalCabbage wrote:
Than you're probs fine for Gondor.

The older Balin (from Durin's Folk list) is also quite deadly, and better for his points than a dwarf king.

Not sure about Murin and Drar, they seem a bit expensive.

Mauhur is good for the attacks value and the speed bonus for scouts, but I consider Vrashku deadlier from what I've seen of him and his profile, sweeping models away from a distance easily; if you want a cap with shield you could always convert one from a normal warrior. Conversions are tricky if you're just starting out but they can be very rewarding, make no mistake.


Well I've been painting and tinkering with 40K, Battletech, Fantasy etc for half my life. (15 years or so)
That's not a problem. :) I even lightly use greenstuff.
But given how prices skyrocket and some models are hyper rare i'm finding it more and more 'annoying' and difficult to defend to rip apart guys for stuff. Especially since the Lotr ranger doesn't come with much bitz
Author:  Ringil [ Sun Jan 26, 2014 6:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Some help with Dunlendings/Isengard vs Dwarves/Gondor
I can't help much with the others but can comment on the dwarf heroes.
Basically all the named heroes are great and I'd reccomend using them. The kings champion is ridicuosly good for his points although expensive money wise but he's a nice model as well. Dain is one of if not the most survivable model for good with def9 and 2 fate. 3 attacks with plus one to wound makes him a killing machine however personally I'm not too keen on him because of his fight 5. Balin is basically gimli with the best of both worlds attack wise (durin's axe is a must buy) but loses a fate but gains a will but is great value.
In summary:
Kings champion
Balin
Dain
I don't rate murin and drar as they just seem so bad when compared to the twins although they are both slighly more powerful captains and decent value for their points and their iron hill upgrade means you can have the best troop in the game (wound everything on 5+ only wounded on 6+ generally speaking)
Bit indecisive advise but hoped i helped a little
Billy
Author:  VandalCabbage [ Sun Jan 26, 2014 6:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Some help with Dunlendings/Isengard vs Dwarves/Gondor
I wouldn't say Murin and Drar are good value for their points, since you could get two captains ergo two warbands as opposed to one. Khazad Guard are better than Iron Hills Vets - they have bodyguard, remember?
Balin with Durin's Axe is still good but relies on luck. 3 dice IMO is better than 2 dice with +1.
Author:  Ringil [ Sun Jan 26, 2014 7:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Some help with Dunlendings/Isengard vs Dwarves/Gondor
Durins axe gives you pseudo 3 dice with the banner re roll so I always rate him above Gimli.
I understand that Khazad guard are better than Iron hill veterans however its a lot cheaper to use veterans and If you highly value shieling they might be preferable. 8) I do agree however that you're better of not using Murin and drar but there are worse heroes to spend you're points on especially if you like the theme ;)
Billy

Basically Iron Hill veterans are a nice theme but not the most competitive one :)
Author:  VandalCabbage [ Sun Jan 26, 2014 8:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Some help with Dunlendings/Isengard vs Dwarves/Gondor
Gimli also has 3 dice to win. Check axes of the dwarves. He just can't combine it with+1 to wound but usually 3 dice to wound is better. Just IMO.
Author:  Ringil [ Sun Jan 26, 2014 8:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Some help with Dunlendings/Isengard vs Dwarves/Gondor
I understand he has 3 attacks it's just statistically 2 dice with +1 to wound is better. Still you've clearly had good experiences with Gimli and his 3 attacks and he's still a great hero it's just personally I prefer Balin but each to his own :-D
Billy
Author:  VandalCabbage [ Sun Jan 26, 2014 9:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Some help with Dunlendings/Isengard vs Dwarves/Gondor
Fair enough, but Gimli also has 1 more fate which is a lot handier than another will point. I think statistically the 2 + 1 v.s. 3 thing might edge in favour of the 3, even if you're not fighting more than two enemies. But best of both world and take both I reckon.
Author:  Ringil [ Sun Jan 26, 2014 9:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Some help with Dunlendings/Isengard vs Dwarves/Gondor
Indeed I can agree to taking both :)
Author:  THE-WHITE-HAND [ Mon Jan 27, 2014 11:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Some help with Dunlendings/Isengard vs Dwarves/Gondor
How many points are you doing for your isengard? I would like so structure a possible list for you. Trying to incorporate everything you have said of corse :)
Author:  rickybobby17b [ Mon Jan 27, 2014 2:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Some help with Dunlendings/Isengard vs Dwarves/Gondor
With isengard it's really awesome now that you can support berserkers with pikemen run a pike formation with the shamen in there so he can hit all your troops with that fury and use the crossbows to try and take out your opponents troops just to try and break them as quickly as possible. I don't really like scouts all that much I only use them as point fillers usually.
Author:  Darthvegeta800 [ Mon Jan 27, 2014 3:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Some help with Dunlendings/Isengard vs Dwarves/Gondor
THE-WHITE-HAND wrote:
How many points are you doing for your isengard? I would like so structure a possible list for you. Trying to incorporate everything you have said of corse :)


I'm going to go 500pts Dunland / 500pts Isengard

vs

500pts Gondor / 500pts Dwarves.

I'm currently the only active player so i'll be working with buddies and supplying the warband myself :)

I'm currently doing a small little greenstuff conversion giving the Lurtz Model a sword on his back. :)
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