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350 points - competitiv evil army
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Author:  Frêrin [ Tue May 06, 2014 10:07 pm ]
Post subject:  350 points - competitiv evil army
I thought about a evil army of 350 points, based on my 700 point list. And I think this list really can hurt any good army. But I'm not sure about some things and I want this army to be really strong!

Warband 1
Ringwraith 2 extra might; 1 extra fate
10 Black Numenorean

Warband 2
Morannon orc captain with two-handed axe (to do piercing strike)
5 Morannon orc with shields and spears

Warband 3
Goblin Scribe
5 Goblin warrior
5 Goblin warrior with two-handed weapon
_______________________________________________________
350 points, 28 models, only 4 might, no bows

My doubts:
1. Does the Scribe is worth its points on this level. I think the lower the points the more the goblins he brings in are worth. But do you think Grinnah (his 3 might points) and 2 more goblins are a better call?
2. I do not have any cavalery and any bows, I thought about taking 5 trackers on wargs instead of the morannon orcs and drop 2 goblins for it. It would add some speed and bows and I would have a psychological advantage if my foe doesn't have any bows himself.
3. I thought of taking a castellan over the captain make the warband full and may take a banner to make it to 350. It would look like this.

Warband 1
Ringwraith 2 extra might, 1 extra will, 1 extra fate
11 Black Numenorean
1 Black Numenorean with banner

Warband 2
Castellan of Dol Guldur

Warband 3
Goblin Scribe
8 Goblin warrior
4 Goblin warrior with two-handed weapon
__________________________________________
350 points, 27 models, only 2 might points

What do you think about my doubts and the two lists?
Author:  samoht [ Wed May 07, 2014 12:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 350 points - competitiv evil army
Grinnah is cheaper and can actually do stuff in combat, and will give you ten more points to play with.

Archers and speed would be well worth it. For such a small force, Harad is ideal. Have you considered them? They are cheap and effective. You can still take the Black numenoreans and you can have 50% bows which means you could possibly get the enemy close to broken before Close combat even starts. In such a small points game, every death counts.

Your new list looks good though. One designed to get into close combat as soon as possible. The one problem is that perhaps you don't have enough heroes to contend with enemy heroes. If the enemy has multiple, 2 attack heroes, that could leave you in a bit of a pickle.
Author:  JamesR [ Wed May 07, 2014 1:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 350 points - competitiv evil army
I like your first list simply because of the Morannons. They're your only real hitting power. List 2 removes all of that and takes out the hero that's really worth it. And as for all of the Black Numenorians, I just don't get them.

People wrote:
"OH! Common troops that cause terror!"


JamesR wrote:
Big deal! I'll just shoot you to death, or not worry about it with Good as they will be getting the charge on you almost every time anyways, and evil can just negate it with Fury.

They're WAY overrated IMO, not a very good troop choice.
[End Rant]

Lol but that aside, keep the Mor(e than just plain) Orcs, and maybe swap the Goblin town Goblins for an Orc Shaman and some normal orcs? It'd boost the effectiveness of your More Orcs as they'r get fury, and give you a little more FV on the table.
Just my thoughts
Author:  rigg1313 [ Wed May 07, 2014 5:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 350 points - competitiv evil army
I would lean towards list 2, though edit it so that you are taking 6 black numenorians and 6 morannon orcs with shields and spears as a rear line.
The castellan will take out any 'captain' level hero no worry but his lack of might will mean his weakness is big heros, which is where your ringwraith comes in to counteract the big hero.
Take grinnah over the scribe because of the 3 might, your other heroes don't have vast reserves of the stuff.


samoht wrote:
Archers and speed would be well worth it. For such a small force, Harad is ideal. Have you considered them? They are cheap and effective. You can still take the Black numenoreans and you can have 50% bows which means you could possibly get the enemy close to broken before Close combat even starts. In such a small points game, every death counts.


Samoht is onto something with taking the black numenorians in the harad list. 50% bows is very nice. Replace the rear line of numenorians with cheap harad spearsmen then add as many watchers of karna as you can take in the second warband with a cheap hero.
Author:  JamesR [ Wed May 07, 2014 5:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 350 points - competitiv evil army
That's ask very good and true about Harad but if you do that you're destroying the theme of the initial lists. Basically you've taken a list, kind of kept one thing and written out an entirely new list lol.
I don't mean that in any kind of strong way I simply mean that if the OP wants to keep it as close to his initial lists swapping everything for Harad isn't the way to go
Author:  Frêrin [ Wed May 07, 2014 7:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 350 points - competitiv evil army
I like the Black Numenorean. They are just one point more than a morannon orc, swtich one S against K and get the terror rule and courage for just one point.
I'm suprised you all seem not to like the Scribe. I could imagine him bringing in even more goblins could be really more worth than the might (because every dead model counts like said before).
I want to stay with the goblins, because I feel like I need to outmember every good army and for 2 warriors of harad a get 3 goblins (same for orcs), but of cause my question was to find the most competitive evil army. I think the problem with harad also is, you can't take a mini-ringwraith, leading troops counting for your bow limit and I think at 350 points a ringwraith is the only realy good thing against big heros evil has.
I also don't think a orc shamane with orcs is worth it. With so little models a mounted hero could easily charge him after a heroic combat and end his fury (or you even could fail to cast it, what can happen in every game, but at 350 points its even worse). Also I don't think F3 is worth a point, because most good armies have F4 so orcs and haradwarrior have no advantage compared to the goblins.
But I don't know about the castellan/captain. A captain is 10 points more, can lead and has 2 might points and still S5 and with a two handed piercing strike he would even better take out any transfixed hero.
Author:  NarsilReforged [ Wed May 07, 2014 12:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 350 points - competitiv evil army
Black Numenoreans are awesome James. For one more point they have the same profile as your beloved dwarves but gain 1" more movement, itself worth 2 points (I think). Even with just this profile they would be effective but they also gain terror as a bonus, which really can be useful in certain circumstances and if exploited properly.
Author:  Frêrin [ Wed May 07, 2014 3:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 350 points - competitiv evil army
Here is a Harad List and it looks really strong actually but there are a few things missing I think.

Warband 1
Ringwraith 2 extra might, 1 extra fate

Warband 2
Haradrim Chieftain
6 Black Numenorean
5 Harad warriors with spears

Warband 3
Haradrim Chieftain
6 Watchers of Karna with bows
5 Harad warriors with spears and bows
__________________________________
349 points, 25 models, 6 might, 11 bows

But I'd take one Black Numenorean and one watcher out to give one chieftain and the ringwraith a horse. The ringwraith really needs it, if he is deployed seperated from the rest and the chieftain needs it to kill heros. But then you are at 23 models which isn't that much.
Author:  Valadorn [ Wed May 07, 2014 4:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 350 points - competitiv evil army
Frêrin wrote:
Warband 1
Ringwraith 2 extra might, 1 extra fate

Warband 2
Haradrim Chieftain
6 Black Numenorean
5 Harad warriors with spears

Warband 3
Haradrim Chieftain
6 Watchers of Karna with bows
5 Harad warriors with spears and bows
__________________________________
349 points, 25 models, 6 might, 11 bows


I think you go over the bow limit, right?
Author:  JamesR [ Wed May 07, 2014 4:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 350 points - competitiv evil army
Yes because you included Black Numenorians you lose the serpent sting 50%
Author:  JamesR [ Wed May 07, 2014 4:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 350 points - competitiv evil army
This is an example of a 350 Haradrim list (keeping your Nazgul cuz you seem to really like him). 349 I believe

Warband 1
Ringwraith 1M, 1W, 1F

Warband 2
Hasharin
4 Abrakhan Guard
4 Haradrim Warriors with Spear and Bow

Warband 3
Haradrim Chieftain
5 Watchers of Karna with Bow
5 Haradrim Warriors
Author:  Valadorn [ Wed May 07, 2014 6:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 350 points - competitiv evil army
why dont take the bows from them:
4 Haradrim Warriors with Spear and Bow

And give em to them:
5 Haradrim Warriors
Author:  JamesR [ Wed May 07, 2014 6:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 350 points - competitiv evil army
Valadorn wrote:
why dont take the bows from them:
4 Haradrim Warriors with Spear and Bow

And give em to them:
5 Haradrim Warriors


Because Harad has the best archery in the game lol and the extra attack supporting the Abrakhan Guard is invaluable
Author:  Valadorn [ Wed May 07, 2014 8:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 350 points - competitiv evil army
JamesR wrote:
Valadorn wrote:
why dont take the bows from them:
4 Haradrim Warriors with Spear and Bow

And give em to them:
5 Haradrim Warriors


Because Harad has the best archery in the game lol and the extra attack supporting the Abrakhan Guard is invaluable



:?
Sir...
I completely agree but i mean why to have those 5 Haradrim Warriors with a single hand wep while you equip other ones with both bow and spear. Make 4 of em with spear to support the Abrakhan Guard and the 5 ones of the warband 3 to keep the bow except for the one handed wep in the situation of battle...
I should have used the word switch to be more specific...
Author:  Frêrin [ Wed May 07, 2014 9:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 350 points - competitiv evil army
I don't have the source book, I just thought it's allowed because someone wrote there are Black Numenorean and he would take Harad because of the 50% bow limit it.
JamesR wrote:
Warband 1
Ringwraith 1M, 1W, 1F

Warband 2
Hasharin
4 Abrakhan Guard
4 Haradrim Warriors with Spear and Bow

Warband 3
Haradrim Chieftain
5 Watchers of Karna with Bow
5 Haradrim Warriors

Doesn't it look like I'm liking the Black Numenoreans, too :P Am I the only one thinking you need a ringwraith at this point level against good heros?
But now my thoughts about this list. I think you can get in trouble against armies, which has many bows itselfs (for example mirkwood or mounted rohan) because of your low def.
Besides I'd give the ringwraith a horse, if he is in his own warband. If he is seperated from the rest of your army, he is nothing. I'd take a mounted chieftain over the Hasharin (maybe with warspear) this gives you at least 30 points, you can spend to buy a horse and 3 more warriors to push the model count.
Author:  JamesR [ Thu May 08, 2014 12:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 350 points - competitiv evil army
I wasn't trying to push you away from Black Numenorians with my list, I was just trying to show how I'd build the suggested Harad list that others had recommended.

As to the Hasharin he's more than worth his points. Chieftain mounted plus troops to make up the difference would be eaten for a snack by a Hasharin
Author:  Frêrin [ Thu May 08, 2014 8:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 350 points - competitiv evil army
JamesR wrote:
I wasn't trying to push you away from Black Numenorians with my list, I was just trying to show how I'd build the suggested Harad list that others had recommended.

It was just a joke. It seems like my english is not good enough for jokes, yet.
JamesR wrote:
As to the Hasharin he's more than worth his points.

Maybe in bigger games, but I think at 350 points you don't need him. I think in the first place you want to kill heros with him. But you need a ringwraith to do so. With only one Might and D4 you need to win your combat, if you don't do it and have bad luck with your fate points, he is dead. A captain on the charge has same attacks and at least the same number of dice to wound.
If you want to kill warriors the Hasharin is a little bit better because of his higher fight value, but 5 more warriors (with 2 or 3 more bows) and a mounted Captain will do better than the Hasharin and boost your model count and breakpoint.
Author:  JamesR [ Thu May 08, 2014 2:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 350 points - competitiv evil army
That's true on model count and break point but I hold firm to my position on him even in 350 Point battles. I had him take on (and beat an Ent) in a recent 350 points match. He is almost always my first include with Harad. So extremely versatile on the attack, can never be trapped, and paired with that Ring Wraith (immobilising the enemy heroes) he kills everyone easily with Bane of Kings
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