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Eastern Kingdoms
https://ww.one-ring.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=31743		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  DomyHill [ Wed Jan 06, 2016 4:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Eastern Kingdoms
After actually getting through painting a battle company of Easterling warriors I would like to expand around them to create a naughty little army. I don't really know what points limit tournaments run at (I've never been to one) but 500/600pts seems about right. I'll try and write a list myself but I'd like some advice on: what sort of points limit should I aim for, should I be including cavalry, Khamul (foot, horse, fellbeast?) or Amdur to lead, war priests usefulness and finally is the Black Dragon upgrade worth it? Cheers.
Author:  Wan Shi Tong [ Wed Jan 06, 2016 4:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Eastern Kingdoms
Most tournaments that I have seen run between 500 to 800 points so I'd shoot for 600 or so to start with.

I've done alright with their cavalry before and I've seen it do well with the black dragon upgrade. They do the job of stopping up other cav or chasing archers just don't expect to much from them and you'll never be disappointed.

The black dragon upgrade is good for horsemen of course but it is worth it for the footmen too, at the very least your back rank. Have fight 4 will help a lot when dealing with most armies you'll run into. It also has a use on bowmen which will make uses of the courage boost late game to stay with objectives and such. I don't know that I would send a whole army of them though unless I had no way to distinguish one unit from the other.

The war priest is a great unit to have for his fury and I wouldn't send out a competitive aiming list without one. The defense six plus a save role is great and if you have him supporting a phalanx block he can off sent the whole trapped front rank thing.

I can't speak for Khamul but Amdur is worth his salt as a leader or as just a fighter to have about. The banner effect is very helpful if you have him lead a group of cavalry too.
Author:  DomyHill [ Wed Jan 06, 2016 5:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Eastern Kingdoms
Khamûl the Easterling with Fell Beast;
4 Black Dragon Kataphrakt.

Amdûr, Lord of Blades with armoured horse;
4 Easterling Warrior with Bow;
4 Easterling Warrior with Shield; Pike;
2 Black Dragon Warrior with Shield.

Easterling War Priest with armoured horse;
4 Easterling Warrior with Bow;
4 Easterling Warrior with Shield; Pike;
2 Black Dragon Warrior with Shield.


600pts, 27 units, 13 unit break point and 6 might.

Is having Khamul and Amdur in this size force too much? Also are banners/war drums worth it?

Edit: Alternatively dropping Amdur and the horses frees room for another warband.

Khamûl the Easterling with Fell Beast;
4 Black Dragon Kataphrakt.

Easterling War Priest
2 Easterling Warrior with Bow; Pike;
2 Easterling Warrior with Shield;
4 Easterling Warrior with Shield; Pike.

Easterling Captain with Shield;
2 Easterling Warrior with Bow; Pike;
2 Easterling Warrior with Shield;
4 Easterling Warrior with Shield; Pike.

Easterling Captain;
2 Easterling Warrior with Bow; Pike;
2 Easterling Warrior with Shield;
4 Easterling Warrior with Shield; Pike.


599pts, 32 units, 16 unit break point and 7 might.
Author:  Dikey [ Wed Jan 06, 2016 7:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Eastern Kingdoms
I would switch the bowmen with more infantry. I've seen a lots of reports, and they have never had any real effect on the battle. They are only average archers and, without great amounts of luck, groups of 6-8 won't do anything on the battlefield.

Amdur is a good cavalry leader with his banner effect, F6 and his elven blade, but he's quite fragile for his point cost, with only D6, 2 wounds and 1 fate. so you have to be careful when picking his fights.
Author:  Galanur [ Wed Jan 06, 2016 7:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Eastern Kingdoms
Well you can take both, but yu would leave the fellbeast at home else risk getting 2 few numbers.... would end up ssomething like this:


Eastern Kingdoms

Warband 1
Khamul the Easterling on armoured horse
5 Easterling black dragons with shield
7 Easterlings with shield and pike

Warband 2
Amdur, lord of blades on armoured horse
4x Black Dragon Kataphracks
1 Easterling warrior

Warband 3
Easterling Warrior Priest
5 Easterling Black Dragons with shield
7 Easterlings with shield and pike

total: 600pts
might: 6
Models:32
Author:  DomyHill [ Wed Jan 06, 2016 8:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Eastern Kingdoms
Thanks for the comments guys. Khamul on fell beast is sort of a must (my SO is getting my it for Christmas... eventually). I'd like to get that in there just for her (watch it :lol:) even if it's not the best use of points. To the point regarding the uselessness of archery in SBG, I know it's not great in small numbers (I once did the maths) those units have been given pikes so they can take a few pot shots and once the front of the phalanx gets killed off they can just join the back and lend an attack. What'd'ya reckon?
Author:  Wan Shi Tong [ Wed Jan 06, 2016 8:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Eastern Kingdoms
If your dead set on using Khamul on fellbeast you might consider moving up to seven or eight hundred points to have a bit more elbow room. But your second list could be reorganized to get a few more guys in there. Drop the second captain redeploy his troops into the other infantry bands and use the points to upgrade some guys and get another few horsemen or a banner.

For the bowmen I say keep them around. The shoot or support role is the same reason most people use rangers of gondor. It gives the option to use the units in different ways during the game or depending on who you play against.
Author:  DomyHill [ Wed Jan 06, 2016 11:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Eastern Kingdoms
Khamûl the Easterling with Fell Beast;
5 Easterling Kataphrakt
1 Easterling Kataphrakt with Banner.

Easterling War Priest
3 Easterling Warrior with Bow; Pike;
3 Easterling Warrior with Shield;
6 Easterling Warrior with Shield; Pike.

Easterling Captain with Shield;
3 Easterling Warrior with Bow; Pike;
3 Easterling Warrior with Shield;
6 Easterling Warrior with Shield; Pike.


This works quite well because it minimises what else I'll need to buy. The other option is to drop the banner leaving me enough points for Black Dragon upgrades for all 6 Kataphrakts and 6 infantry - probably the front row of the phalanx so I'm always benefiting from the higher fight value or the archers so they don't leg it in the late game.
Author:  DomyHill [ Thu Jan 07, 2016 2:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Eastern Kingdoms
Anyone have any idea which is more useful out of 12 black dragon upgrades or a banner?
Author:  Galanur [ Thu Jan 07, 2016 5:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Eastern Kingdoms
diferent things with diferent effects.

black dragons gives you:

Fight 4: Standart fight value, on tie rolls you win vs fight 3 or lessl and tie to 4s
Courage 4: its another extra point not to fail courage value, rather than needing 7s(average on dices) you´ll need 6s on 2D6, pretty much affordable.

Banner: Allow you to re-roll 1 dice per model in the fight nearby the banner. Can be usefull if you roll lower and got a chance to get a better roll off and win the combat.
However the 2nd result applies even if its worst than the previous roll.


Of the 2 perhaps I would keep the Fight 4/courage 4 cause you dont float in random chances to be effective. Also the banner its 3" around so its a very closeup range, also if the banner dies you need to make ssure having another model nearby to collect it else it will be lost.

I would take banner if I had an enormous easterling force and had to spread out.
As far as I know Amdur itself its a way tougher banner to deal with and hes also a very good fighter. So keep as it is.
I would consider another banner if let´s say you had like close to 1000pts, where you would need more banners to give more chances to the easterlings to win combats (that combined too with the fight 4 upgrade, not choosing bettewn one or another).
Author:  DomyHill [ Thu Jan 07, 2016 5:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Eastern Kingdoms
Thanks Galanur, that really clears it up. Time to repaint all my Easterling kataphrakts black!
Author:  Dikey [ Sat Jan 09, 2016 1:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Eastern Kingdoms
Quote:
For the bowmen I say keep them around. The shoot or support role is the same reason most people use rangers of gondor. It gives the option to use the units in different ways during the game or depending on who you play against.


Bur Rangers have a better shooting value and a better Fight, which makes them more effective than esterlings archers.
I think that with esterling you have to go with Black Dragons pikemen and kataphrats, and then fill the points with infantry.

Quote:
Anyone have any idea which is more useful out of 12 black dragon upgrades or a banner?


Dragons. Fight 4 units over the board is a must have for every army other than spam armies.
Author:  DomyHill [ Sat Jan 09, 2016 1:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Eastern Kingdoms
Cheers Dikey, I'm on it.
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