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Moria 2 armies, 1 for dragon, 1 for Balrog
https://ww.one-ring.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=34405		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Salattu [ Fri May 29, 2020 7:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Moria 2 armies, 1 for dragon, 1 for Balrog
These beasts are awesome collectibles, so i would like to make 600-800p armies for them...

So, when it comes to the dragon, as far as i know, it hasn't received any buffs lately, unlike most other monsters. But, moria has these giant bats, so i believe that with a couple of giant bats assisting against high F enemies, the dragon with wings could be a bearable monster? Also, if i understood right, the dragon can now lead 24 normal units, which saves points from "useless" heroes, is this true? I also hoped to add a few spiders and wild wargs for thematic reasons. Thematically the idea is that the balrog is dead, and moria is silent, until a new beast takes its place and gathers creatures...

Then is the balrog. Balrog is right now superiorly powerful. Most weirdest idea i had was adding only these "tiny balrogs" to serve him, because they would regain their wounds back, so they would be an unstoppable army? Another idea was to max archers, and therefore forcing an enemy to come into contact... Could these kind of army lists work with the balrog?

Thx a lot answers! Please do not bother to make a full army list yet, instead generalized advice would be enough for now, i wll add formal lists later... :)
Author:  Salattu [ Fri May 29, 2020 10:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Moria 2 armies, 1 for dragon, 1 for Balrog
Ok, sorry for confusion. These new rules got me confused. Ånywåys, i nevertheless måde now 2 årmy lists, here they åre:

--------------------------------

Dragon’s beastly host: Moria + Angmar 800p

*Dragon (NO WINGS)
-15 moria goblins

*Ashrak
-6 moria goblin
-6 giant spider (5 extrapoison)

*Goblin captain
-12 moria goblin

*Wild Warg Chieftain
-12 wild warg

Overåll: 799p, 55 units, 8 might, fun ånimål theme.

--------------------------------------
 
Balrog’s slave army: Moria 600p

*Balrog
-12 goblins

*Goblin Captain
-12 goblins

*Goblin Captain
-12 goblins

Overåll: 600p, 4might, 39 model, 1/3 årchers, simple årmy-
Author:  werennor [ Sun May 31, 2020 9:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Moria 2 armies, 1 for dragon, 1 for Balrog
First I like the dragon and I took him serveral times for a tournament Moria Army. I once did not give him the ability to fly, and it was sad to watch him trying to get in combat in vain, because most opponents were as fast as the dragon and could evade him. Therefore I vote for flying!

Second, your Balrog army is fine for me. Put a captain always near to Balrog, do give him the possibility of heroic move. And I gave some spear goblins with an extra shield. just seven of them can strengthen your frontline, especially when you don't have enough models for spear support.
Author:  Salattu [ Sun May 31, 2020 10:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Moria 2 armies, 1 for dragon, 1 for Balrog
Ok, you may be right about the flying. On the other hand, it can be a bit difficult to find a compromise, but here is a few options to get 49 points:

1. Remove 7 wolfs.

2. Remove 2 spiders and 1 goblin and 2 items from gobbos.

3. Remove extra poisons and 2 spider.

4. Remove 2 wolf, all extra poisons, 1 spider and 1 goblin.
Author:  werennor [ Sun May 31, 2020 8:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Moria 2 armies, 1 for dragon, 1 for Balrog
Hi Salattu, I would remove 7 wargs (your option 1). I estimate ginat are far deadlier than wargs. Wargs are quick but vulnerable, and spiders are just as quick and harder to kill. And the can ignore most kinds of difficult terrain. the goblins are thematic in a Moria army and give the advantage of higher numbers. They can block other troops and give you temprary some control over the board. But of, you will decide about the structure of your army.
Author:  Salattu [ Mon Jun 01, 2020 11:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Moria 2 armies, 1 for dragon, 1 for Balrog
You are right, these wargs are not very effective soldiers, so should i just spam more goblins instead of using any wargs at all?

It would reduce the beastiness of this army list though, but perhaps with sparing points i could add a bat or an extra spider due to savingfrom wargs and warg chieftain? Does anyone have any experience are bats useful to combine with the dragon so gilgalad or enemy troll could be killed easilu with assistance of bat?

One more option which i came to think about is replacing warg chieftain with barrow-wight. Would barrow-wight be an useful hero? It could paralyze some enemies so spiders or gobbos could kill them off? I guess it is not 100% canotic but why wouldn't there be any assisting spirits in the moria, because the caves of moria are so deep and so many have died there due to their greediness of rare metals, and this is hoe traditionally these spirits emerge?

So, now is 3 options to do:

1. Drop all wargs, add spiders and goblins.
2. Drop all wargs, add bats and goblins.
3. Drop the chieftain and a couple warg, add barrow-wight.

Which one you pps recommend?
Author:  Salattu [ Mon Jun 01, 2020 1:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Moria 2 armies, 1 for dragon, 1 for Balrog
Ok i thought about it and the spirit seems a bit too unthematic so here is army list:

Dragon’s beastly host: Moria 800p

*Dragon, wings
- 14 goblins
-1 giant bat

*Ashrak
-6 goblins
-6 giant spiders, extra poisonous

*Goblin captain
-11 goblins

*Goblin captain
-11 goblins

Overall: 800p, 8 might, 52 models, 16 bows.

Please comment is this a good list or should i replace the bat with spider and a couple of gobbos? Also, theoretically i could give 17 goblins a bow, but i own only 16 bowmen, so should i try to convert 1 more bowman? Or should i anyways avoid bows and intend to go into near melee?
Author:  werennor [ Wed Jun 03, 2020 4:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Moria 2 armies, 1 for dragon, 1 for Balrog
Hi Salattu, goblin archers are very bad in hitting and in wounding. Normally I take 2 to 4 for a Moria army, but not more. These few may gain a lucky shot and perhaps kill the horse of a hero. If so, great, if not, not many points lost. And they could be sent to some markers if the selected scenario has markers.

The bat swarm can be useful for the dragon as supporter,it is as quick as a flying dragon.

Therefore I would use this army as it is. Maybe reduce the number of archers to get more goblins with melee weapons instead.
Author:  mr. dude [ Wed Jun 03, 2020 5:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Moria 2 armies, 1 for dragon, 1 for Balrog
Orc and Goblin shooting isn't there to kill things, it's there to threaten to kill things. Aragorn on horse will be a lot more cautious with 16 Goblins threatening to shoot his horse, regardless of whether or not you actually will shoot it.

I've told a story on here of me many years ago hiding my Gothmog behind a wall for much of a game because my opponent had like 8 archers and I didn't want Gothmog dismounted. I took it to an extreme in that case, but that's what shooting does. You have to specifically tailor an army to be dangerous with its shooting, but any army with enough archers can cause your opponent to think about where their heroes are going. 2-4 Goblin archers won't have the same effect.

The other thing that archers allow you to do is play the game on your terms. Lots of armies want you to come to them and use archery to convince you. If you have no archers, they'll force you to chase them while they run away. If you do have archers, you can afford to not chase. If you have ranged superiority, which for Goblins will come from having more archers, you'll force this army to come to you when they really don't want to. Once combat closes in and your archers don't have much to shoot at, put them in combat to trap things.

As for the army, Salattu, my issue with big hero armies is that they're easy to counter if you only have one threat. Sure, you have a Bat and Spiders, but really the only threat is the Dragon. One spellcaster can deal with one Dragon. Balrog or Sauron level heroes can handle whatever magical attention you throw at them, so an army like that is okay with only having one major threat (but still prefers two); Dragons aren't quite there and need something else to draw attention away from them. Now, a Dragon and a Cave Troll (or a Baby Balrog) becomes different, I have to decide which one to focus my spellcaster on each turn. You have a high model count, which is excellent, I would just look for an opportunity to add another monster in.
Author:  Salattu [ Wed Jun 03, 2020 10:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Moria 2 armies, 1 for dragon, 1 for Balrog
Ok, whåt do you think åbout this, improved by your both suggestions. Dweller seems like å bårgåin compåred to the cåve troll? Åre wårgs useless? Cån wårg chieftåin knock ånyone down with S6? I took årchers so enemy won't hit ånd run ås eåsily. Cån drågon model be used ås å dråke (looks best)? Thx for help!

Dråke’s beåstly host: Moriå + Ångmår 800p


*Cåve Dråke
-1 giånt båt
-5 moriå goblins

*Åshråk
-5 giånt spiders with extrå venom
-7 moriå goblins

*Goblin Cåptåin
-1 Dweller in the dårk
-11 moriå goblins

*Goblin Cåptåin, bow
-12 Moriå goblins

*Wild Wårg Chieftåin
-6 wild wårg

Overåll: 797p, 53 models, 16 bows, 8 might, lots of beåsts. Excess 3 points will be used ås speårs for gobbo årchers.
Author:  mr. dude [ Wed Jun 03, 2020 11:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Moria 2 armies, 1 for dragon, 1 for Balrog
Before we look at the army, yellow alliances need a Hero of Valour leading each faction, so unfortunately you can't ally in just a Wild Warg Chieftain with Moria.

If you want to use the Cave Drake instead of the Dragon, that's not a bad army either. I would swap out the Wild Warg warband for something like Durburz and 11 Goblins.

As for your other questions:

Quote:
Dweller seems like å bårgåin compåred to the cåve troll?

They're cheaper once everything is equipped, but it depends what you're after. Dwellers are harder to kill, faster, and have a higher FV, absolutely. Trolls are fantastic at killing things, they have S6 and Burly which is terrifying. Trolls also have a smaller base, which means you can maneuver them better. Both are valuable, usually it's a matter of personal preference or what you think your army needs.

Quote:
Åre wårgs useless?

I wouldn't say so, no. They're fast and cheap. Don't take too many of them because they are really easy to kill, but as long as you have a purpose for them in mind, they can be valuable.

Quote:
Cån wårg chieftåin knock ånyone down with S6?

No, it's not a cavalry model.

Quote:
Cån drågon model be used ås å dråke (looks best)?

That depends on your opponent. Most tournaments will say no unless you've done a conversion, but in a casual game most opponents will be fine with it. Just make sure you clear it with your opponent before the game.
Author:  Salattu [ Thu Jun 04, 2020 12:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Moria 2 armies, 1 for dragon, 1 for Balrog
Dråke’s beåstly host: Moriå 800p


*Cåve Dråke
-1 giånt båt
-5 moriå goblins

*Åshråk
-6 giånt spiders with extrå venom
-6 moriå goblins

*Goblin Cåptåin, bow
-1 Dweller in the dårk
-11 moriå goblins

*Goblin Cåptåin, bow
-12 Moriå goblins

*Goblin Cåptåin, bow
-12 moriå goblins

Overåll: 797p, 59 models, 23 bows, 8 might. Less beåsts but more måss... Å bit monotonous årmy, so one option is to drop the låst wårbånd, ånd insteåd ådd 1 more båt swårm ånd 1 more dweller/cåvetroll or similår units, would it be smårter?

Btw, i wås reåding åbout the ålliånces, but i didn't find åny rule åbout the vålour hero. Shåme the old ålliånce system is måde so complex...
Author:  mr. dude [ Thu Jun 04, 2020 1:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Moria 2 armies, 1 for dragon, 1 for Balrog
It was a recent FAQ in response to things like Cirdan being taken so often as an ally.

Who would your leader be in the latest army? That's why I suggested a Durburz level character. Not too strong, but more survivable than other Goblins.
Author:  Salattu [ Thu Jun 04, 2020 10:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Moria 2 armies, 1 for dragon, 1 for Balrog
I think the shaman would be the leader, keeping it behind the frontline, which consists a long shield+archer wall, but enough near to help the spiders if needed. A couple of beasts would make the enemy think twice how to attack. Only problem would be elves and humans who have a lot of long range archers, they can abuse their range for ever. :/
Author:  Salattu [ Wed Jun 10, 2020 9:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Moria 2 armies, 1 for dragon, 1 for Balrog
Dragon's slave host Moria 800p

*Cavedrake
-4 goblins
-2 bat swarm

*Goblin captain, bow
-10 goblins
-black goblin drum

*Goblin captain, bow
-10 goblins
-1 bat swarm
-1 cavetroll + hammer

*Goblin captain, bow
-12 goblins

*Goblin captain
-12 goblins


Overall: 800p, 59units, 23 bow, 9 might, op drums and rapid bats to buff units.
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