in lotr sbg what is(in your opinion) the most fun point s cost to play at. i recently played a 500 point game and it seemed a bit clunky and im unsure if thats just the points cost or size of the board

The 'standard' tournament size for SBG seems to be 1000 points these days.

However, I think there's a sweet spot around 650-750 points where the game works best. It allows for a broad range of armies, some big heroes, a few smaller monsters but still nips along at a really good pace and maintains the skirmish appearance of the game.

Generally speaking if we go up to 1000 points we add in a 'biggy' i.e. Aragorn, Saruman, The Watcher etc. so you get some cool toys to play with but the game doesn't take that much longer.

All that aside, the last game I played was 2300 points per side with 4 players and around 300 figures. We played the Big Helm's Deep scenario from the back of the Two Towers rulebook, took us all day but it was well worth it to see so many painted figures crawling all over the Deeping Wall.

Definitely not what you want from a quick evening's gaming though!

_________________
Finished 2nd in the 2014 GBHL. My Wife's so proud

Free SBG fanzine: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=29569

If by clunky you mean slow, the game will get faster as you learn the rules. IMHO best to start off learning around the 300 point range, or play one of the smaller scenarios in the journeybooks if you can still find them. Once you get the rules down you'll discover shortcuts, like rolling for multiple archers at the same time, etc.

If by clunky you mean cramped, what size board were you using?

In my opinion, 700 is the most fun to ply with: enough points to get some magic or cool heroes on the board, but small enough to keep it to 90 minutes.

_________________
"make me lunch... worthy of Mordor"

Who won?

Imo 1000 pts, that way you can field a couple of heavy heroes and/or monsters. Most people wont do that though and you'll end up cutting down a lot of warriors before the army is reduced to 25% and the game is over.

_________________
Operation future in full swing.

We called it a draw after about 6 hours and headed to the pub! To be honest we weren't that fussed about winning or losing, more about recreating the event and the spectacle of the whole thing. We modded the scenario a fair bit too to make it more interesting, everything happened as you'd want it to though, ladders were raised, walls exploded, cavalry arrived to save the day, Now for wrath, now for ruin etc. etc. We took a ton of pictures and are gonna try and write it up on here soon enough with the rules, pics and a brief report.

Twas good fun and, on topic, I was really impressed by how well the game mechanics held up at the scale. I was worried it might be a bit of a slog but it flowed really well, it definitely helped having 2 players per side though.

_________________
Finished 2nd in the 2014 GBHL. My Wife's so proud

Free SBG fanzine: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=29569

That was such an awesome game.

When we called it (and went to the pub) there were 3 areas of combat that could have gone either way. They were like games within a game:
1) Gimli and some warriors of Rohan were fighting Uruks in the breach in the Deeping Wall,
2) Gandalf, Eomer and Erky were leading a large Riders of Rohan force trying to break through a tough Uruk pike wall,
3) Theoden, Aragorn, Legolas and the Royal Guard had saddled up and ridden out to engage the Uruks near the gate, trying not to get shot by 40 or so Uruk crossbows.

The rules do allow the game to scale beautifully, but we may have got a result if we'd stuck to the 1500 points suggested in the Two Towers sourcebook. We got a bit carried away one we opened our cases and counted up all the toys we had available............ Still, 2300 points of fully painted minis on a board with Helm's Deep was just too epic to pass up.

For normal points-match games I'm happy with anything between 500 and 1000 points.

_________________
Titans Wargames Club

http://s10.zetaboards.com/The_Titans/index/

Did you guys fit all that on a 6x4 board?

Yes, we did. We even found space for a small wood with an Ent hiding in it at the back of the board. It had no part in the game, just a reminder of what happens to the Uruks if they don't win.

_________________
Titans Wargames Club

http://s10.zetaboards.com/The_Titans/index/

My experience is that any points cost can be great fun to play provided you are playing with like minded players who are fun to hang out with. I've had engrossing games from a few hundred points to over 6000 aside.

That said, unbalanced games can also be really interesting and a good tactical change. I guess that's why I love this game!

_________________
Visit my blog: whoistheodoreus.blogspot.co.uk

i understand that illl learn the rules a s i go along but after the first few turns it seemed to be a big line of combat for the rest of the game(could have been the size of the board) What size board do you suggest playing on?

that helms deep battle would have been awesome, post a battle report

Sounds like you need some terrain, and at least a 4x4 board. Also, if you aren't using the new scenarios, yes, the game can turn into a slugfest. Also #2, just MHO but you should never just go line to line. If you're close enough to charge the enemy it's often advantageous to *not* have priority. That way you can pick your battles, decide who to support, etc. It's almost always better to get as many models as you can on an enemy to ensure a kill, if you can do it without compromising your position.

okay ill see after another game with more terrain how it turns out, thanks for all the help

This. This. One hundred times this.

I think SBG attracts players who are more interested in playing fun, interesting, cool, narrative driven games than in winning or losing. The reason Helm's Deep was so fun is the four of us weren't really out to win or lose, in many ways it was more like a demonstration game for the rest of the club. We were more interested in making sure the beats of the film were recreated than in making the wisest tactical decisions - hence our relentless attempts to charge Haldir into Beserkers to try and get him killed! Didn't work btw In all honesty, I don't know why we're being so impartial, Damian and I were both defending Helm's Deep, clearly the Rohirrim would have won the day!

I think board size and terrain is really important in SBG and may have caused the big clash in the middle slog-fest the OP describes. The LOTR doubles tourney this year was 1000 points on 4x4 and it was far too small. There was relatively little choice but to advance up the field and fight which was quite frustrating.

I think 4x4 is ok up to about 500/600 points. If I'm playing anything bigger than 600 points I like to play on a 6x4 board COVERED in terrain. The individual movement of models in LOTR allows you to create some really cool looking battlefield covered in individual trees, rocky outcrops and ruins that make the game far more interesting. It forces models to fight down narrow gulleys or across obstacles and breaks up those dull battle lines and shield walls.

As someone else mentioned some of the new scenarios also inherently make the game more interesting. Domination is my favourite, particularly on a 6x4 board as you tend to be running towards 5 different places at the same time, this has the effect of splitting up the forces and prevents the big scrap in the middle.

_________________
Finished 2nd in the 2014 GBHL. My Wife's so proud

Free SBG fanzine: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=29569

ill try domination

i find 600pt generally works well on a 4x4 board

_________________
'Though my memory's fading, I remember two things very clearly: I am a great sinner and Christ is a great Savior'
-John Newton

I think 1000 points on a 4x4 is fine for most armies. Admittedly a Goblin horde could deploy 2-deep across the entire width of that, but if you're using the recommended 33-50% terrain coverage a large, unwieldy horde shouldn't be able to automatically overwhelm you.

Once casualties start mounting up the gaps start appearing. A 1000 point game becomes 900 points, then 800 etc etc.

The Rohan force in our Helm's Deep game was roughly 1000 points of heroes and 1300 warriors. About 600 points of that was infantry and they were spread very thinly over 6 feet.
600 points of warriors is roughly what you'd have in a 1000 point army and they'd fit fine in 4 feet.

Incidentally, Dr Grant is totally right, The Rohirrim would have carried the day.

_________________
Titans Wargames Club

http://s10.zetaboards.com/The_Titans/index/

For SBG anything from 400 pints and up can be good if you have a good scenario, nice terrain and an appropriate board size - if it is an all infantry contest then 4x4 is fine but cavalry can be stretched up to 8x4 if you want to make it a battle of manouvre. I have played some 500 to 1000 point games on 6x4 but a lot depends on what forces are involved.
WoTR - can be much bigger. I am experimenting with adapting a non-GW ruleset for bigger faster battles - hundreds of minis and not-so-minis but that is a long way from rolling out.

_________________
Published ebooks:
Instrument of the Empire
A Note of Defiance
Phantom Ships, Ghost Flotilla
More to come!

1,000pts in SbG. 15000 would be better but no one ones to get that high in SbG sonce wotr, and any less is too small.

_________________
"I am the Flying Spagetti Monster. Thou shall have no other monsters before me"
-FSM.