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Stupid questions woooooooooo
https://ww.one-ring.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=26519		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  LordoftheBrownRing [ Fri Oct 04, 2013 6:57 am ]
Post subject:  Stupid questions woooooooooo
Few questions:

Ok so simple question lets say you have a rider of Rohan with a bow. When he moves his full move can he also shoot.
Also, when he shoots is there a penalty to his shot?

And finally, if a cavalry model roles and ties lets say, a regular orc with the same fight value, does the cavalry model get some sort of fight win bonus or does it go back to the 1,2,3 for evil 4,5,6 for good role?

My old game game books are torn up and pages are missing I just cant seem to find a 100% answer and I am new to the game. Thanks
Author:  SouthernDunedain [ Fri Oct 04, 2013 7:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Stupid questions woooooooooo
You can only move half and still shoot. If you do this then you have a -1 penalty to your shoot value. So 3 becomes 4 etc.

And no, cav get no bonuses in drawn combat unless they have an elf blade.
Author:  whafrog [ Fri Oct 04, 2013 11:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Stupid questions woooooooooo
A cavalry model that charged infantry gets to roll an extra die and gets knockdown if he wins, but that's it for advantages.
Author:  martinusv [ Fri Oct 04, 2013 1:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Stupid questions woooooooooo
riders with bows on cavalry can still shoot after a full move right?
Author:  JamesR [ Fri Oct 04, 2013 2:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Stupid questions woooooooooo
martinusv wrote:
riders with bows on cavalry can still shoot after a full move right?


No. With bows or anything else they must reduce their speed like anyone else. Only throwing weapons do not require a reduction in movement for that turn
Author:  Bilbo [ Fri Oct 04, 2013 2:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Stupid questions woooooooooo
martinusv wrote:
riders with bows on cavalry can still shoot after a full move right?


Definitely not!
Author:  LordoftheBrownRing [ Fri Oct 04, 2013 9:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Stupid questions woooooooooo
Thanks a lot for the prompt responses guys. Idk it seems a little weird to me though that if the fight is a tie and so is the fight value a mount still doesnt get the win....BUT I guess it is balanced out by the fact the rider already has two attacks.
I just played a game the other day and this what happened...it was a Rohan vs Warg rider ambush. The point was to get 1/3 of the Rohan force(all on foot) across the other side of the board. There were 14 warg riders and equal score rohan force no heros no captains only three rohan royal guard 'leading the force'.

At one point when the two groups finally engaged in the largest sum of chaos in one section of the battle with tie rolls the 3 rohan royal guard held off and killed 7 warg riders and most of the wargs and the rest of the wargs ran away because of their courage checks. In all honesty I think there were between 4-7 tie rolls for all those fights and the rr guard won every tie. I was thinking just because of the sheer idea cavalry combat ties should go to them....anyone else think so or do I sound stupid?

Im just saying IDK in their minds how combat looks if someone ties but I imagine it means both participants showed equal strength and skill and the basic size and ferocity of a warg and an orc on top probably trumps the one lonely warrior of Rohan...
Author:  GothmogtheWerewolf [ Fri Oct 04, 2013 11:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Stupid questions woooooooooo
Bilbo wrote:
martinusv wrote:
riders with bows on cavalry can still shoot after a full move right?


Definitely not!

Unless you played RoR in WotR (Not SBG).
Author:  JamesR [ Sat Oct 05, 2013 4:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Stupid questions woooooooooo
LordoftheBrownRing wrote:
At one point when the two groups finally engaged in the largest sum of chaos in one section of the battle with tie rolls the 3 rohan royal guard held off and killed 7 warg riders and most of the wargs and the rest of the wargs ran away because of their courage checks. In all honesty I think there were between 4-7 tie rolls for all those fights and the rr guard won every tie. I was thinking just because of the sheer idea cavalry combat ties should go to them....anyone else think so or do I sound stupid?

Im just saying IDK in their minds how combat looks if someone ties but I imagine it means both participants showed equal strength and skill and the basic size and ferocity of a warg and an orc on top probably trumps the one lonely warrior of Rohan...


I had a discussion a while back w whafrog on a similar idea with the Watcher vs Boromir and 1 Gondorian.
In your above example I think it's best to not imagine participants to locking blades it's more of a closely fought duel that seems like it will be a draw, but the character with the higher fight value gains a momentary advantage and strikes with it. The models represent combatants that are constantly in motion, so even those who are charged aren't necessarily just sitting there allowing their foes to just charge them. Maybe the Royal Guard side-stepped the Warg at the last second
Author:  whafrog [ Sat Oct 05, 2013 2:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Stupid questions woooooooooo
They way cavalry and the fight score is handled has always been ripe for questioning :) It sounds a bit like what you want is guaranteed results. It's tempting to confuse actual results with what the odds really are.

One to one, the odds of a higher fight model winning is 16% higher. This is pretty significant, and in a decent sized game the shifts in luck should balance out.
Two on one, where the extra die is owned by the lower fight models, the odds swing the other way 16%. So statistically the RRG should have lost over half the time.

If you want to change this up, like giving cavalry a +1 Fight bonus, you'll have to adjust the costs, making cavalry more expensive across the board. But you'd still have the same issue if you played the same game with elves instead of RRG...elves would win the ties just as handily, even though your cavalry is more expensive. And speaking of elves, +1 Fight on a charge means all mounted elves are troll and wraith killers...

Basically, the ripple effects are huge, as you're dealing with only 6 pips, and any shift brings a large statistical changes.
Author:  LordoftheBrownRing [ Wed Dec 18, 2013 9:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Stupid questions woooooooooo
Yeah I understand what yall are saying. Thanks. It was funny how those royal guard smoked the wargs. Maybe it was just an extra angry group of men who have had enough warg attacks in history.
Author:  Beowulf03809 [ Thu Dec 19, 2013 7:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Stupid questions woooooooooo
In most of my games ties don't come up that frequently, especially when more than one die is being cast on a side. So Fight plays some role, but not a dramatic one in the view of an overall game. Usually the additional die rolled by a charging mounted model has a bigger effect. Naturally if you are charging a foe that already has 2+ attacks then this won't look as significant.
Author:  LordoftheBrownRing [ Thu Dec 19, 2013 10:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Stupid questions woooooooooo
Beowulf03809 wrote:
In most of my games ties don't come up that frequently, especially when more than one die is being cast on a side. So Fight plays some role, but not a dramatic one in the view of an overall game. Usually the additional die rolled by a charging mounted model has a bigger effect. Naturally if you are charging a foe that already has 2+ attacks then this won't look as significant.



Yeah thats why I always understood why people put so much emphasis on fight value.....if you outnumber Theoden for example with 4 orcs, which is roughly what a 1/5 or a 1/4 of his points?
Author:  Beowulf03809 [ Fri Dec 20, 2013 2:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Stupid questions woooooooooo
Because when the ties DO come up, you want to be the one winning!

More than most games I've played I think SBG has balanced the importance of almost every stat. Attack gives the double benefit of giving you extra dice to win the Fight roll but also extra dice to Wound. Strength is critical to puncture armor (this is the biggest weakness I find in my Wood Elves). Fight gives you the win when ties DO come up (and the higher Attack dice help shift you more to tie than loss). If all of this fails and you still loose the Fight roll then Defense keeps you alive.

I have seen other systems in the past where one or two stats dominate significantly and others fall into uselessness. Fight may seem like a minor stat, and I personally don't think it's the #1, but all the SBG stats come into play through the course of the well-designed SBG game in such a way that it is still very important. It may not be tied for first, but it's tied for second.

The only 'looser' stat is Shoot value for models without a weapon option. ;-)
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