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| Knockdown and rend https://ww.one-ring.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=28967 |
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| Author: | Claymore [ Sat Jun 21, 2014 1:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Knockdown and rend |
If a Nazgul on fell beast charges and wins the fight against an infantry model the model will be knocked down. If I then chose to rend are the strikes made doubled or do you take the base attack(2 + 1) since you are not resolving the strikes in the normal way? |
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| Author: | SouthernDunedain [ Sat Jun 21, 2014 1:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Knockdown and rend |
you get double strikes. |
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| Author: | Claymore [ Sat Jun 21, 2014 1:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Knockdown and rend |
Is that not a bit Powerful for what is a not very expensive upgrade to a Nazgul. If I have the Knight of Umbar on fell beast and the above happens to even someone like Durin I could easily kill him off in one phase of combat. |
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| Author: | Bernardo [ Sat Jun 21, 2014 2:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Knockdown and rend |
You get 2+1 attacks from charging, so your fellbeast has 3 attacks total. but these 3 attacks are doubled against those models on the ground. Doesn't make a difference with rending. you just got a better chance of wounding |
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| Author: | Bernardo [ Sat Jun 21, 2014 6:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Knockdown and rend |
They are good, but not really overpowered. Remember you are spending 170 points in total on 1 model. And 1 or 2 wounds could kill the nazgul. So Durin might die in 1 turn, but could also kill the nazgul in 1 turn depending on the dice rolls. |
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| Author: | Claymore [ Sat Jun 21, 2014 6:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Knockdown and rend |
How would you recommend using a Nazgul on fell beast namely the Knight of Umbar? I was thinking of using him in my harad and umbar army but was not sure how to get the best out of him, hence my creation of this thread. |
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| Author: | Bernardo [ Sat Jun 21, 2014 8:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Knockdown and rend |
It is difficult to make them worth their points. You should compel heroes out of their line, and kill them. Also with his 3 might he can do some serious damage with heroic combats. Charge 2 models, kill them, charge another 3 and kill probably 2, maybe 3. Or charge somewhere where you can hurl through a decent line. That way you can kill 8 models in 2 turns what gives your troops a big chance of outnumbering your enemies. It actually takes a lot of practice to do the right thing at the right moment. |
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| Author: | Claymore [ Sat Jun 21, 2014 9:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Knockdown and rend |
Do you see as more of a troop killer than a hero hunter? I thought that with his special rules he would be more suited to the latter but this is pure speculation. With compelling heroes out of the line would it not be easier to compel a troop out of the line then heroic combat off of them to give you in essence 24 inch movement. The Knight of Umbar has a poor cast value for compel so when it does cast you don't want it being resisted, also players may think there heroes are safe behind the line. Just my thoughts |
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| Author: | First Ager Smith [ Sat Jun 21, 2014 9:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Knockdown and rend |
I agree w/ above post but defer to the Lord of the Fell Beast...GBHL's Champ...Mr. Ed Ball!! |
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| Author: | Hodush [ Sun Jun 22, 2014 8:19 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Knockdown and rend |
They are more hero killers, especially If its up against a transfixed or compelled hero. Magic gets around all of the things which normally make heroes hard to deal with (high attacks, defence and might). You are playing it very risky if you charge heroes without using magic on them. All it takes is 1 wound and your wraith could be gone. As for casting compel on troops then heroic combat, that is firstly a waste of might as you will never need to travel 20" in one turn, the only situation you would do this would be to take out a wizard and normally you would be fine just to fly in like normal. You only have a limited amount of might, so you want to be careful how you spend it as it could be more necessary to keep the wraith alive, such as preventing it from being charged the next turn by a swarm of troops or a heroic move hero who can then heroic strike to take you down as you can't use magic to stop them. Even though the casting value is high, you will want to spend 2+ will on the spell anyway to make sure it succeeds. Compelling the hero means that if the spell fails, you can choose to fly off and engage some troops and get the hero next turn. So to be clear, compelling heroes out of the line is for combat heroes like Boromir etc. If you get them out of the line you can charge and knockdown with the fellbeast but very importantly, you can get troops into the fight as well if the other player has already moved or if you have priority and can protect that combat from being interrupted for that turn. For wizards, you can just sap will if you want to deal with something else. |
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| Author: | Claymore [ Sun Jun 22, 2014 9:04 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Knockdown and rend |
Thanks for the in depth response it has helped clarify things. One more question is it best to wait till the turn were you lose priority then compel the hero to avoid counter charging because as I understand it you can compel troops even if they have used there full movement. |
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| Author: | Hodush [ Mon Jun 23, 2014 12:37 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Knockdown and rend |
It is "best" to use it when they have already moved, yes, as the only way they can stop things from happening is with Heroic Actions. It is generally not a good idea to wait until you lose priority - just take it as it happens. You want your orcs to be engaging ASAP, as you most likely outnumber them. You can prevent being counter-charged by positioning your troops well, keeping in mind that spearmen will block heroic combats. So compel first, charge as many people into the hero as is possible or necessary, then use your troops to prevent the counter-charge. You may be required to sacrifice some troops or send them in solo and do some shielding. |
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| Author: | Claymore [ Mon Jun 23, 2014 6:39 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Knockdown and rend |
Thanks for the advice. |
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