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Guard of the Fountain Court and Hand Weapons
https://ww.one-ring.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=29043		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Chivs [ Sat Jul 05, 2014 7:09 am ]
Post subject:  Guard of the Fountain Court and Hand Weapons
Hello all

I want to check I'm reading the rules correct regarding GotFC based on some models I've seen on the GBHL Facebook page.

The question namely is: Can GotFC be armed with swords?

If I've got this correct, P67 of the EFGT rulebook states taht all models carry a single-handed weapon unless they are stated to be unarmed. We then look at the model to see what they have - as GotFC have no single handed model on them, presumably we can then choose which type, and swords are fairly traditional for Gondor.
The only potential problem I can see is that they come armed with spears by default, and whether this somehow precludes them having swords as well. Spears aren't listed in the list of examples of single handed weapons due to their own special rules, but can clearly be seen to be wielded in 1 hand by a number of models in the game.

I can see two reasons why it would be advantageous to give GotFC swords The first is to be able to use the feinting rule in combat, which was listed in the title of the picture in the Facebook post; gaining an extra optional rule can hardly be considered a negative.
The second is modelling. If players want to give their models shields, arming them with spears could be awkward, as you typically don't carry a spear one handed by the very end of it. Being able to arm them with swords would be much more convenient.
(In addition I got my own GotFC second hand and none of them have any spears)
This does lead to a modelling corollary: would there be an issue in modelling the models without their spears for the above mentioned reasons? The few people I've played LotR against wouldn't have a problem with it, but I'm trying to broaden my range of players. I plan on modelling some with where I can, but others without when the conversion is more difficult.


Finally, I have a last completely unrelated question: Is Anduril a single handed weapon or a two handed weapon (or both and you get to choose?)

Thanks all

Chivs :boromir
Author:  halauas [ Sat Jul 05, 2014 8:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Guard of the Fountain Court and Hand Weapons
About the GOTFC, yes you can arm them with a single hand weapon and shield, nothing against the rules here. Spears/pikes are considered as equipment and not weapons at all (dont try to find the logic, GW did it like that to match the rules sinply :) )

1-Yes a model CAN be armed with both spear and shield, nothing wrong to that.
2-Yes you can convert them with shield and sword, they have the option to their profile rules and it is by far the option to play them even.
3-Rulewise you can equip them with whatever kind of weapon you like (axes/maces/flails), you dont against the rules. HOWEVER it do not suggest it as it breaks the theme by far and many players see it as rule abuse.
I will not judge whether is right or wrong but if you want to expand the people you are playing with i would NOT suggest it, some of them might not like it at all
Author:  Pindergorn [ Sat Jul 05, 2014 3:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Guard of the Fountain Court and Hand Weapons
IIRC the GotFC come with swords included in their profile, as do many other spear armed models (e.g. Warriors of Arnor) and so can use the feinting rule regardless.
Author:  Chivs [ Sat Jul 05, 2014 8:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Guard of the Fountain Court and Hand Weapons
King Ondoher wrote:
IIRC the GotFC come with swords included in their profile, as do many other spear armed models (e.g. Warriors of Arnor) and so can use the feinting rule regardless.


They're not mentioned explicitly in the Kingdoms of Men sourcebook. Not a single model in the Minas Tirith army (that I can see anyway) has hand weapon listed, and so all models are assumed to carry one. However in the Mines of Moria book, swords were listed on WoMT or Citadel Guard, but not for Fountain Guard. By removing the wording from all the other entries, Fountain Guard seemed to have gained Swords (though even the MoM book seemed to indicate that all units had a hand weapon of some description).

halauas wrote:
3-Rulewise you can equip them with whatever kind of weapon you like (axes/maces/flails), you dont against the rules. HOWEVER it do not suggest it as it breaks the theme by far and many players see it as rule abuse.
I will not judge whether is right or wrong but if you want to expand the people you are playing with i would NOT suggest it, some of them might not like it at all

I'm with you on that one, and rest assured everyone in my Gondor army gets a sword; save the axes for those peasants up in Rohan.
The question was more about the lack of the spear on the model. A sword can be held in a scabbard until needed, but there's nowhere to put a spear. Still, I've never had any problems with slightly differently modelled 40k models, and so hope I won't from the LotR community either.
Cheers for the answers. Guess I've got some WoMT to dismember for their weaponry.

Chivs
Author:  Pindergorn [ Sat Jul 05, 2014 10:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Guard of the Fountain Court and Hand Weapons
IIRC an FAQ included updates to profiles that specified the exact type of hand weapon each model has, as a response to power gaming players abusing the new Special Strikes rules by converting lots of models to have certain weapons even when it didn't make sense thematically (Wood Elves with axes etc).
Author:  Frêrin [ Sat Jul 05, 2014 10:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Guard of the Fountain Court and Hand Weapons
The only problem I see is, if your model does not carry a spear, it is not allowed, to use it and so you are paying one point to much.
Author:  SouthernDunedain [ Sun Jul 06, 2014 7:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Guard of the Fountain Court and Hand Weapons
it would get incredibly confusing when a sword armed GotFC supports his buddy with an invisible spear. Modeling a sheathed sword on them is ok.
Author:  Goldman25 [ Sun Jul 06, 2014 9:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Guard of the Fountain Court and Hand Weapons
Look at film stills of them, you can see swords on their belts.
Author:  Dezartfox [ Sun Jul 06, 2014 9:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Guard of the Fountain Court and Hand Weapons
Chivs wrote:
King Ondoher wrote:
The question was more about the lack of the spear on the model. A sword can be held in a scabbard until needed, but there's nowhere to put a spear. Still, I've never had any problems with slightly differently modelled 40k models, and so hope I won't from the LotR community either.
Cheers for the answers. Guess I've got some WoMT to dismember for their weaponry.

Chivs

You never seen 300? They lob their spear at someone, pull out their sword, chop with that a few time and then go find the spear ;)

The rules state that every model has a hand weapon, and usually it's clear what they have. There's no rule to govern what they have if it's not modelled though, we're talking about a set of rules and models that are more than 10 years apart.

Thematically it makes sense to arm them with what they should be armed with, but we will always get someone who abuses the rule and gives all their wood elves axes.

WYSIWYG is a requirement so they need the spear if they want to use it. Same as they need an axe if they want to use an axe. If they don't have a certain weapon they can't use special strikes.
Author:  Pindergorn [ Sun Jul 06, 2014 11:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Guard of the Fountain Court and Hand Weapons
SouthernDunedain wrote:
it would get incredibly confusing when a sword armed GotFC supports his buddy with an invisible spear. Modeling a sheathed sword on them is ok.


Yeah, personally I would just say that the guys who've been modeled with swords no longer have a spear even though they've paid a point for it. Its a price worth paying I think to have aesthetically pleasing models.

I certainly wouldn't expect my opponent to permit the use of invisible spears. :lol:

I'm doing this actually with my own GotFC. I wanted a Warband of Royal Guards for my Arnor force but no such thing exists in Arnor. So for tournaments in which I need to conform to the rules 100%, I'll use a Warband of converted GotFC (helmet feathers and white tree removed and Gondor shields cast from greenstuff with the tree removed) and a King of Men model to lead them. It would be a Warband from the Minas Tirith list, but converted to represent an Arnor King and his Guard. Half of teh Royal Guards will have the spears replaced with swords.

In friendly games I'll just invent a profile.
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