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| Couple of questions from the new guy https://ww.one-ring.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=30396 |
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| Author: | Deadchris [ Tue Feb 03, 2015 10:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Couple of questions from the new guy |
Hi all, Recently got back into sbg after years of not playing and loving it. Just wanted to check a couple of things mainly about spears support. Can spears support anything now ie Calvary, monsters etc? Can't find anything against it unless I'm missing something. Also under spear support it says you use your own fight value. I presume this is different to a multiple combat where you use the highest value. So a hero with spear support would use there fight value and the spear attack would use its own correct? Thanks in advance and looking forward to being apart of this great community. |
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| Author: | LordElrond [ Tue Feb 03, 2015 11:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Couple of questions from the new guy |
1. Yes 2. No. Only the highest fight value counts, it's just that a model that is supporting now has his own fight value and strength just as if he were another model in the same multiple combat, although still only the highest fight is counted. |
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| Author: | Dr Grant [ Tue Feb 03, 2015 11:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Couple of questions from the new guy |
Welcome to the site! Great to hear you're back into the hobby, have a look around the forum and if you have any questions just shout, there's a fantastic community on here and we'll all be very happy to help. Anyway, to your questions: Yep, spears can now support any base size, a goblin can support the Balrog if you wish! As for the Fight value question, it simply means that in the new rules the model with the spear gets to contribute an attack at their own Fight and Strength values, unlike the old rules where they simply gave the model they were supporting an extra attack. You can now use the higher Fight value of the supporting model to win you the Fight in the case of a draw.This means there's now an advantage to having high Fight Value models (like elves) with spears supporting lower Fight value front liners with higher defence like Fountain Court Guard. Hope that helps. enjoy the site! |
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| Author: | Deadchris [ Wed Feb 04, 2015 2:03 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Couple of questions from the new guy |
Thanks for the quick replies. I thought I might have been over complicating the spear rule but wanted to double check. I've been into war gaming for quite a while but haven't played sbg for a long time. Kicking myself for not trying it again sooner it's quickly jumped to my favourite system to play. Slowly dragging the rest of my gaming group along on my 'unexpected adventure' 
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| Author: | Dikey [ Wed Feb 04, 2015 8:58 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Couple of questions from the new guy |
Dr Grant wrote: Yep, spears can now support any base size, a goblin can support the Balrog if you wish Are you sure about it? Sure, the rules say nothing on that point, but I still find this strange, at the very least. Is there some errata to make this clear? |
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| Author: | Dr Grant [ Wed Feb 04, 2015 12:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Couple of questions from the new guy |
Yep, quite sure. There used to be a passage in the old rulebook that clearly stated that you could only support models with an equal or smaller base size than yourself but that's been removed form the Hobbit rulebook. There's no errata that covers it but its been asked at official GW events and that was the answer. Is it stupid and counter intuitive? Yes, but it makes it things a bit simpler and clearer, if you have a spear you can support irrelevant of the nature of the model in front. |
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| Author: | Dikey [ Wed Feb 04, 2015 8:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Couple of questions from the new guy |
Dr Grant wrote: Yep, quite sure. There used to be a passage in the old rulebook that clearly stated that you could only support models with an equal or smaller base size than yourself but that's been removed form the Hobbit rulebook. There's no errata that covers it but its been asked at official GW events and that was the answer. Is it stupid and counter intuitive? Yes, but it makes it things a bit simpler and clearer, if you have a spear you can support irrelevant of the nature of the model in front. well, that's something new to me, thanks. I still think that's one very stupid thing to do. How could a Spear be of any use when a Balrog (whose base is 5 time larger than a goblin's) is involved? |
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| Author: | legion [ Thu Feb 05, 2015 5:27 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Couple of questions from the new guy |
Its one of those things that everyone knows is a rule, but rarely does anyone do it. I have yet to play a game where someone supports their Mordor Troll or Mumak with a Haradrim spearman, however even if they did, it's only one extra attack so it's not broken or anything. Though it is really weird. |
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| Author: | Dikey [ Thu Feb 05, 2015 9:18 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Couple of questions from the new guy |
legion wrote: Its one of those things that everyone knows is a rule, but rarely does anyone do it. I have yet to play a game where someone supports their Mordor Troll or Mumak with a Haradrim spearman, however even if they did, it's only one extra attack so it's not broken or anything. Though it is really weird. One extra attack is always a big deal. Expecially when monsters are involved. The more dice we roll, the highter the chance to get a 6. Monsters where already overpowered without the ability to benefit from spear and pike support. |
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| Author: | Dr Grant [ Thu Feb 05, 2015 11:09 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Couple of questions from the new guy |
I don't think monsters are particularly overpowered now, I think they're a fair representation of how scary monsters should be! These days when I see a Dragon on the table I worry about it in the same way a warrior on the tabletop would worry about it. Before the Hobbit rules monsters were woefully easy to tie-up. Also, remember that the rules are only there as an abstraction of the actual events, the characters aren't pinned in place as they are when in combat on the tabletop, they're constantly moving spinning and ducking. I don't think the spearmen is standing behind the Mumak trying to make his spear reach, I picture him running between the Mumak's legs and stabbing the enemy model whilst he's distracted by the Mumak. I rarely see a monster being supported with a spear to be honest, the most effective use I've seen of this new spear ruling in action is goblin spearmen supporting Warg Marauders - absolutely hideous. |
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| Author: | Dikey [ Thu Feb 05, 2015 12:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Couple of questions from the new guy |
Dr Grant wrote: I don't think the spearmen is standing behind the Mumak trying to make his spear reach, I picture him running between the Mumak's legs and stabbing the enemy model whilst he's distracted by the Mumak. That's quite suicidal. And it should be considered a charge. I think that the best way to picture the spear rule is what the Uruks did at Helm's Deep when charged by the elves (of course, I'm talking about the two towers movie). Or the Iron Hills Dwarves phalanx. That's how a spear is supporting. Still, as dumb as it its, is the rule. Not the only one that disappoints me. As for monsters, they were frightening even before the new rules came out. For the price of Aragorn Elessar, Mordor could field a Troll Captain and a Mordor Troll to tear him apart without brutal attack. Even a cave troll for half of fellowship's Aragorn points can give him an hard time without power attacks. |
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| Author: | GothmogtheWerewolf [ Thu Feb 05, 2015 2:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Couple of questions from the new guy |
Before Brutal Power Attacks you could just feed a non-hero monster one low point model a turn whilst you deal with the rest of the army. They'd never get into combat with Aragorn for e.g. |
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| Author: | Gondorian Captain [ Sun Feb 15, 2015 9:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Couple of questions from the new guy |
Welcome back to SBG! Don't really have anything more to add as your questions have been answered above but hope you enjoy battling across middle-earth 
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