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Shooting at modles that are taller than others
https://ww.one-ring.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=30697		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  AlatartheRed [ Mon Mar 09, 2015 1:35 am ]
Post subject:  Shooting at modles that are taller than others
Is it possible to shoot a large models like the balrog or a troll if they have smaller models like orcs in front of them on all sides.

Also can a smaller model be soot at if he is directly behind another model I've seen people in videos treating this as an in the way rolling to hit then on a 1,2,3 hitting the first model and n a 4,5,6 hitting the one behind it.
Author:  Dr Grant [ Mon Mar 09, 2015 11:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Shooting at modles that are taller than others
LOS in SBG is drawn from the model's eye view so yes you can shoot at the Balrog in your first example but you will need to take an In The Way test for every model between the shooting model and the target. It doesn't matter how big the target is or how small the blocking model is, if any part of the target is obscured then you need to roll an In The Way test.

In the second example the smaller model can be shot at as long as he can be partially seen by the shooting model. Again, the relative size of the two models doesn't matter.

Hope that helps.
Author:  ste271276 [ Mon Mar 09, 2015 12:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Shooting at modles that are taller than others
Dr Grant your so money supermarket you just dont know, I on the otherhand am confused.com!!!!!
Author:  AlatartheRed [ Mon Mar 09, 2015 3:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Shooting at modles that are taller than others
Thank you Dr.Grant that helped very much
Author:  BoromirAlwaysDies [ Mon Mar 09, 2015 5:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Shooting at modles that are taller than others
Dr Grant wrote:
LOS in SBG is drawn from the model's eye view so yes you can shoot at the Balrog in your first example but you will need to take an In The Way test for every model between the shooting model and the target. It doesn't matter how big the target is or how small the blocking model is, if any part of the target is obscured then you need to roll an In The Way test.

In the second example the smaller model can be shot at as long as he can be partially seen by the shooting model. Again, the relative size of the two models doesn't matter.

Hope that helps.



So if theres a fell beast behind many orcs are there still in the way?

What if there is a mordor troll behind goblins that are small?
Author:  LordoftheBrownRing [ Tue Mar 10, 2015 12:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Shooting at modles that are taller than others
Dr Grant wrote:
LOS in SBG is drawn from the model's eye view so yes you can shoot at the Balrog in your first example but you will need to take an In The Way test for every model between the shooting model and the target. It doesn't matter how big the target is or how small the blocking model is, if any part of the target is obscured then you need to roll an In The Way test.

In the second example the smaller model can be shot at as long as he can be partially seen by the shooting model. Again, the relative size of the two models doesn't matter.

Hope that helps.


Youre saying according to the rules, even if theres a line of hobbits in front of an eagle, or Beorn, that we still have to do in the ways for each?

If so, can you please link or guide me to an official GW statement on that? Im not disagreeing I just might need this for a tournament coming up and I know people there will not believe this in some cases.

It personally wouldnt make sense to me either.
Author:  Dr Grant [ Tue Mar 10, 2015 12:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Shooting at modles that are taller than others
If they block the LOS to the model then yes. The official statement is the rulebook, if a model partially obscures the target of a shooting attack then you have to make an ITW roll.

In your specific example I doubt they would block any part of the eagle (it'll be higher up because of the flying stand) but if they obscure part of Beorn then yes, you'd have to roll an ITW for each one.
Author:  LordoftheBrownRing [ Tue Mar 10, 2015 1:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Shooting at modles that are taller than others
Alright. Thank you.

Say Beorns blocked from the knee down and 85% of his model is still visible....still an in the way then right?

I wish there was a rule for if say hes blocked by 50% or less, then in the way is only a 3+ or something....
Author:  Dr Grant [ Tue Mar 10, 2015 3:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Shooting at modles that are taller than others
Yep, there's nothing in the SBG rules about how much of a model is obscured, you're either obscured or you're not.

It might seem strange with a goblin blocking Beorn but the poses of the models are just representing a specific moment in time: as you take your shot Beorn could crouch down and the goblin could leap up etc.

It might sometimes seem stupid but I like how simple it is, as soon as you get to 50% obscured I think it'll actually get more complicated. Sure the Beorn example will be easy to resolve but you end up having far more debates about two models that are the same size "I think I can see 51% of him" "Well I think you can see 49% of him" etc.

I've never had an issue with the LOS rules the way they are, they're quick and clean and easy to implement mid-game IMO.
Author:  LordoftheBrownRing [ Tue Mar 10, 2015 4:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Shooting at modles that are taller than others
Yeah that would make the game much more complicated and a bit warhammery.

The pose thing makes sense. Thats probably the most accurate way Ive heard it described. Good call on that one.

How about for magic while were on the topic?

If you see any part of Beorn past hobbits can you cast magic at him even if hes 50% obscured?
Author:  Frêrin [ Tue Mar 10, 2015 4:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Shooting at modles that are taller than others
You can cast magic, as long as you have los to the target and you hace los even if it is obscured 99%.
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