Monsters Throwing Questions sounds like a great idea for a TV quiz show
You probably would not want to give any wrong answers...
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| Monsters Throwing Question https://ww.one-ring.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=31053 |
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| Author: | Azeral [ Fri May 29, 2015 2:20 am ] |
| Post subject: | Monsters Throwing Question |
I saw a DCHL video which was extremely funny and yet raised an interesting point....Can Monsters throw models Up? The book says any direction, and up would be a direction that would cause fall damage. Im just interested in this. Anyway, here is the video if your wondering what I'm talking about. It's a hilarious video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dd60wdsx3mQ |
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| Author: | LordoftheBrownRing [ Fri May 29, 2015 9:14 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Monsters Throwing Question |
Honestly I think its a loop hole that a tournament regulator at GW could not call off but a more mature tournament in a league like the GBHL would make a ruling on. There's no rule that days you can't but socially you're a d bag if you do it. |
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| Author: | Badner [ Fri May 29, 2015 10:42 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Monsters Throwing Question |
I would say that it could be allowed, if you try to throw the mini on an other mini, which is standing on a bridge or something like that. But throwing it up, only for the fall damage is very nice. |
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| Author: | Dorthonion [ Fri May 29, 2015 10:46 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Monsters Throwing Question |
Monsters Throwing Questions sounds like a great idea for a TV quiz show You probably would not want to give any wrong answers... |
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| Author: | Isilduhrr [ Fri May 29, 2015 11:20 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Monsters Throwing Question |
Honestly I don't see why not, it's tactically viable, it's something that a troll feasibly would do, and it would rarely be more devastating than 10" through your enemies troops, so I personally would say you could. |
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| Author: | Reto [ Fri May 29, 2015 11:46 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Monsters Throwing Question |
Fantastic idea 
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| Author: | Jobu [ Fri May 29, 2015 5:26 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Monsters Throwing Question |
Remember that the distance thrown is measured from the base, not from the model, and if the thrown model travels over another models base the thrown model effects that other model. The way I see, if the monster throws a model up the model being thrown is passing over the base of the model throwing it, knocking it down (maybe) and delivering a s3 hit to it. The thrown model will effectively be thrown into the model that threw it, if the model has a high enough strength then the thrown model will stop. The throwing model will be inflicting a s3 hit to itself, and the thrown model will stop there never having risen high enough for falling damage. I suppose that this could also be used as an argument against a monster throwing a model "behind it". As in a monster can only throw a model in a 180 degree arc from the point of contact with the thrown model. Otherwise the thrown model is travelling across the base of a model and makes contact with it, effectively stopping the thrown model if the strength of the throwing monster( the base of which it is travelling over) is high enough. Hope that makes sense...... |
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| Author: | jericho2597 [ Fri May 29, 2015 9:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Monsters Throwing Question |
Jobu the model is thrown in any direction from the edge of the monsters base, so if a model is placed at the edge of a monsters base and goes directly upwards, it will come back down without touching the monster. |
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| Author: | First Ager Smith [ Sat May 30, 2015 1:19 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Monsters Throwing Question |
Since I'm the guy who suggested it to the DCHL I'm totally biased...BUT...rules as written allows it. I would only do this if I did not have a more tactically advantageous hurl target within range; say a nice line of models I could knock prone! Edited for inappropriate language. PM'd Dr Grant |
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| Author: | Jobu [ Sat May 30, 2015 2:11 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Monsters Throwing Question |
Well, if we are going to follow the rules, we must follow the rules. Step 3 of the hurl description says the model must be placed Prone, capital P, at the end of the move. Hurling a model up does not allow it to be placed Prone at the end of it's move. Since there is no description that allows a model to be placed Prone while in the air, as in before falling, we reach an area where there are no rules. When a model falls, it must be placed prone on the board, according to the falling section. Not be prone and then fall. A model is never described as being Prone anywhere else but on a surface of the board. A model can not be Prone and then fall, since a Prone model is, by definition, already on the ground. 
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| Author: | First Ager Smith [ Sun May 31, 2015 7:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Monsters Throwing Question |
DSon't worry the model will be placed prone w/cap. P at the end of hurl
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| Author: | Jobu [ Mon Jun 01, 2015 3:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Monsters Throwing Question |
First Ager Smith wrote: DSon't worry the model will be placed prone w/cap. P at the end of hurl Well, the capital P in Prone, it is written in the rules with a capital, references that part of the rule book. First Ager Smith wrote: I would only do this if I did not have a more tactically advantageous hurl target within range; say a nice line of models I could knock prone! Now, since there are people like you who seem keen on doing this, I believe it is important to snuff this out. You can not hurl a model up and still be prone at the end of the hurl. Only a model on the ground can be Prone. |
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| Author: | Wan Shi Tong [ Mon Jun 01, 2015 6:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Monsters Throwing Question |
Can you throw a model off a cliff then, what about into a river? Models that are throw over a cliff or off a building would have the same problem with falling. And I don't think you can make a model that's swimming go prone either. Also if you could throw straight up could you throw it at an angle to arch over some models to have the thrown guy land on someone else at the end of the throw? Now tactically I think this is just pointless. If you win the fight but don't have any good throws to make why would you not rend or barge or just strike normally? This throwing a model in the air, while annoying, offers no benefit to the player controlling the monster at all. I would bet that whatever you are throwing would have a better chance of surviving most throws then it would against the monsters regular attacks. |
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| Author: | Jobu [ Tue Jun 02, 2015 6:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Monsters Throwing Question |
Wan Shi Tong wrote: Can you throw a model off a cliff then, what about into a river? Models that are throw over a cliff or off a building would have the same problem with falling. And I don't think you can make a model that's swimming go prone either. You pick a direction and throw, if the model reaches the end of it's movement before reaching the/a surface (ground, mesa etc) then there is a problem, one basically has to just put the model on the ground and call it a the end. There is no "arc" in the throw, it is in a straight line. Yes you have the same problem with throwing a model off a cliff, it would go straight off the cliff, or one could target another model lower down. Wan Shi Tong wrote: Also if you could throw straight up could you throw it at an angle to arch over some models to have the thrown guy land on someone else at the end of the throw? See above, there is no "arcing" in the rules. Wan Shi Tong wrote: Now tactically I think this is just pointless. If you win the fight but don't have any good throws to make why would you not rend or barge or just strike normally? This throwing a model in the air, while annoying, offers no benefit to the player controlling the monster at all. I would bet that whatever you are throwing would have a better chance of surviving most throws then it would against the monsters regular attacks. No, it is not entirely pointless, which is why people have suggested it. Falling damage is nothing to laugh about. For every inch a model falls, beyond it's own height, a model takes a strength 3 hit, if a model is thrown up 6 inches, you roll 5 dice. Most models will take a hit, at least one, on top of already taking damage from "stopping" in mid air. I agree that in most situations a regular attack would be better, but a low defense hero with two wounds and two fate will survive a regular strike better than a 6 or 7(or more) inch toss in the air. More dice to damage and a greater chance of causing more than 3 wounds. Look, there will be players who try and do this, just like people use to try and use might to increase the damage roll of non targeted models (those that were hit by the blasted model, not the spell) of sorcerous blast. |
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| Author: | First Ager Smith [ Tue Jun 02, 2015 8:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Monsters Throwing Question |
LOL, Jobu, I disagree w/ your argument w/ a capital D.- calls T.O. over and lets him/her make the call... |
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| Author: | generalripphook [ Fri Jun 05, 2015 12:30 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Monsters Throwing Question |
I would ask before a combat in which you are contemplating throwing them up. |
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| Author: | Asamu [ Mon Jun 08, 2015 7:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Monsters Throwing Question |
The problem with throwing a model up is that it will generally be worse than just rending the model or attacking normally anyway, as most monsters are str 6/7. Assuming a model is ~1 inch tall on average, and Str 3 vs a monster Str 6, the minimum falling damage would be 4", or 3 str 3 hits. At most, it would be 9", or 8 Str 3 hits, with an average of 5-6 Str 3 hits and 1 str 6 hit. Considering that monster probably has 3 attacks, that wound on 3s with a rend, it's not worth it on anything defense 6 or higher, as the average number of wounds will be lower, despite a higher potential number of wounds. Vs a Str 3 defense 5 model, average wounds from the hurl would be: 2, vs the 2 from rending, vs a defense 4 model, 2.167 vs 2. Vs anything higher defense than that, a rend would do more wounds anyway. Because the model would be dead a significant majority of the time either way, the debate is irrelevant. Basically, you are better of hurling normally to disrupt the other player's line or rending/barging/attacking normally in almost all cases. For a Str 7 monster, it would be worth doing against Str 4 models with 4 or less defense, or Str 3 models with 5 or less defense. The situations where you would actually want to hurl the model up are very niche. The only realistically applicable situation is if the monster is fighting a multi-wound model with Str/Def3 (I think that is exclusively Arwen/Galadriel, and if a monster got in on those models and won the fight, something is going poorly for the player using them to begin with). |
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