All times are UTC


It is currently Thu Dec 12, 2024 1:25 pm



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 10 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Cavalry vs. Cavalry, Multiple Combats and Charge Bonuses
PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2016 2:48 am 
Kinsman
Kinsman
Offline

Joined: Sun Jul 13, 2008 11:37 pm
Posts: 235
This is a two-parter that came up in my last game:

First, I had a few of my cavalry models charge my opponent's mounted captain. One of them got counter-charged by an infantry model, thus splitting it off into my models vs. my opponent's mounted captain, then my charging cavalry vs. my opponent's infantry. Where does that leave me with regards to charge bonuses in the cavalry vs. infantry fight?

On the surface, it's cavalry vs infantry, I get charge bonuses. When I read the exact wording of the rule however, it seemed to suggest that, since I charged an enemy cavalry model, my cavalry loses its bonuses (regardless of the fact that that's not who I'm fighting anymore). I went with the latter ruling and didn't give myself the charge bonus, but I felt like it was a grey area worth being discussed.

Part II:
The fight phase came, we had the mounted captain combat first, captain lost and got dehorsed. Where does this leave our answer to Part I? I still charged a cavalry model, but by the time this combat happened, the model I charged was no longer a cavalry model.

Any thoughts on this?
Top
  Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Cavalry vs. Cavalry, Multiple Combats and Charge Bonuses
PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2016 1:40 pm 
Craftsman
Craftsman
Offline

Joined: Tue Sep 01, 2009 3:24 pm
Posts: 448
Location: Richmond, VA
Part 1: if you charge a mounted model in the charge phase and get counter charged by infantry causing fights to split, you still get the charge bonus vs the infantry if that infantry combat gets split off. It is about when the fight is resolved, you charged, he countered but the fight becomes cav vs foot. You get the bonus if you a: charged and b: the fight is resolved vs only models on foot.

Part 2: If the captain gets thrown off his horse you only get double strikes if he rolls a 1 on the fallen rider chart, because the captain would be on the ground. Now, non monstrous cavalry charging non-monstrous cavalry does not automatically cause a rider to be thrown when losing combat. they simply lose combat. You can choose to strike the horse or the rider though, if you kill the mount then the rider is thrown. If you have multiple people in combat with the captain and roll each models strikes separately then you can potentially kill the mount and throw the captain to the ground( if, as above, the captain rolls a 1). The strikes after the mount is killed are normal unless the captain rolled a 1.

_________________
richmondwarmancers we play Lord of The Rings, Battlefleet Gothic, Infinity, some board games, and really whatever tickles our fancy..
Top
  Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Cavalry vs. Cavalry, Multiple Combats and Charge Bonuses
PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2016 5:32 pm 
Elven Elder
Elven Elder
User avatar
Offline

Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2012 7:30 am
Posts: 2793
Location: In the Tardis Bar
Images: 1
Quote:
If the captain gets thrown off his horse you only get double strikes if he rolls a 1 on the fallen rider chart, because the captain would be on the ground.


This is incorrect (well partly) I'm afraid.

(pg 53 hobbit rulebook) - If the mount is slain, after all attacks against the mount and rider have been resolved, the rider must roll on the thrown rider table. So even if you kill the horse with the first strike, the captain doesn't get thrown until the end of the fight.

_________________
12th GBHL 2013.
13th GBHL 2014
9th GBHL 2015



Mid Sussex Wargamers
Top
  Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Cavalry vs. Cavalry, Multiple Combats and Charge Bonuses
PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2016 5:59 pm 
Loremaster
Loremaster
User avatar
Offline

Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2012 11:28 am
Posts: 1389
Southern is right... you can imagine all striking at same time, exception its with heroic combats in which if on the 1st round of combat the mounted model gets knocked, then on the 2nd fight the knocked effect will then apply.

Of course this is combat, what you normally see out there is the horse being killed on shooting or with magic, in which this case its completly diferent.

The cav charge bonus are nullified on a combat in which hes facing another cav model, if the enemy throw 2 models(1 being cav) at your foot model and then you counter the enemy cav model with a cav model of your own, the enemy cav model will have to fight the other combat and therefore will take no effect on your primarly 1st foot model target who got charged by.(and gain no bonuses cause hes fighting your mounted model rather than the 1st foot option he charged into).
Top
  Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Cavalry vs. Cavalry, Multiple Combats and Charge Bonuses
PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2016 6:06 pm 
Loremaster
Loremaster
User avatar
Offline

Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2012 11:28 am
Posts: 1389
On the other hand if you charge 3 models(1 being cav) you gain no bonus at all... if by someway the enemy cav loses his horse before entering combat phase) you will therefore get the bonus cause for that combat phase purposes you´re fighting foot models since the enemy rider lost his horse long ago.
Top
  Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Cavalry vs. Cavalry, Multiple Combats and Charge Bonuses
PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2016 8:22 pm 
Craftsman
Craftsman
Offline

Joined: Tue Sep 01, 2009 3:24 pm
Posts: 448
Location: Richmond, VA
Huh, I will have to look at that in the hobbit rules. I did not think it specified after ALL the strikes in a combat. I assumed it was just one models strike(s), so rolling each model individually would allow one to unseat a mounted model before rolling for the next model(in the same combat) strikes.

_________________
richmondwarmancers we play Lord of The Rings, Battlefleet Gothic, Infinity, some board games, and really whatever tickles our fancy..
Top
  Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Cavalry vs. Cavalry, Multiple Combats and Charge Bonuses
PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2016 11:28 pm 
Kinsman
Kinsman
Offline

Joined: Sun Jul 13, 2008 11:37 pm
Posts: 235
Sorry it's taken me so long to respond, I haven't been near my rulebook in a while. I'm looking at it now, there is a quote that continues to give me doubt about the answer.
Big Rulebook, P52:
"In order to claim these bonuses, mounted models must have charged only models on foot and be in base contact exclusively with models on foot when the Fight is resolved."

The second half of the quote is already an answer, you're in base contact with a mounted enemy even though you're no longer fighting. The first half has a grey area; I charged enemy cavalry, now I'm in contact with infantry.

I'm still leaning toward no, I don't get bonuses because my cavalry didn't charge infantry, but I would like to see a healthy discussion brew
Top
  Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Cavalry vs. Cavalry, Multiple Combats and Charge Bonuses
PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2016 10:49 am 
Ringwraith
Ringwraith
User avatar
Offline

Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2012 1:50 pm
Posts: 1339
You do get the bonuses. It's a very specific situation that isn't covered by the rules but the intent is quite clear. The rule is described as representing the weight and force of the cavalry model as it hits an infantry model (or something like that) and in your example this would still be the case.

Furthermore, you won't be in base contact with the cavalry model when the Fight is resolved. In the rules for splitting Fights it tells you to separate the models during the Move phase. Thus, at the start of the Fight phase, your charging cavalry model will only be in base contact with the infantry model and so will get the bonuses.

_________________
Finished 2nd in the 2014 GBHL. My Wife's so proud

Free SBG fanzine: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=29569
Top
  Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Cavalry vs. Cavalry, Multiple Combats and Charge Bonuses
PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2016 9:38 pm 
Kinsman
Kinsman
Offline

Joined: Sun Jul 13, 2008 11:37 pm
Posts: 235
I was about to contest that with an FAQ I remember about whether the King's Champion and his Heralds lose their defence bonus if the Heralds get charged, but the FAQ supports your point.

Fair enough, I do still find it a grey area but there's enough evidence to suggest that the cavalry model does get its bonuses. Well done team!
Top
  Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Cavalry vs. Cavalry, Multiple Combats and Charge Bonuses
PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2016 9:10 pm 
Wayfarer
Wayfarer
Offline

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2016 8:28 pm
Posts: 7
I dont know the rules clearly state you will not get the bonuses if you charge a cavalry model, so even if you end the combat with only infantry you still wouldn't get it.

its a and/and situation,
-have you charged only models on foot
-are you in base contact with models on foot only

if you say you get the bonuses then the first rule is unnecessary clutter that doesn't provide anything to the rule book, since the second rule would cover everything.
Top
  Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 10 posts ] 

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 55 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: