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| Pikes - supporting attacks that are two-handed https://ww.one-ring.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=34202 |
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| Author: | Gundalad [ Thu Oct 03, 2019 6:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Pikes - supporting attacks that are two-handed |
Haven’t really heard anyone mentioning this before but a big change to the new rules to me is the pikes now being a supporting attack that is rolled like a two-handed weapon. I think I’m right in saying this and it seems quite right that these use lumbering weapons would make you worse in a duel but gain a +1 to wound if they actually stabbed you. To use them like this as a supporting attack is new and interesting, also on a side note the minus one they receive if they were to also have a shield / crossbow would then make them -2 in a duel, anyone think any different? |
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| Author: | ja33 [ Thu Oct 03, 2019 8:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Pikes - supporting attacks that are two-handed |
Not sure where you got that info from but it is incorrect. Pikes do not suffer the -1 penalty unless the model also has a shield, bow or crossbow. Other than that, they support same as a regular spear support with no negative modifiers. Hope this clears things up for you |
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| Author: | Gundalad [ Fri Oct 04, 2019 7:12 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Pikes - supporting attacks that are two-handed |
Hi thanks for your response, may I kindly ask where you got your information? Pike is described as requiring two hands to use in its description in the weapons section, as you’d have to be using it to support I don’t see how it could then act like a single-handed weapon or hand-and-a-half-weapon just because it is supporting? |
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| Author: | Wan Shi Tong [ Fri Oct 04, 2019 4:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Pikes - supporting attacks that are two-handed |
Hey Gundalad, I don't think I have ever heard of your interpretation of the rules related to pikes before. The general consensus on the rule is that a pike isn't a two-handed weapon but a hand weapon like the spear. I can try to explain it here but let me know if you disagree or don't follow my reasoning. The entry for pikes on page 85 of the rule book says that "Pikes require two hands to use. Otherwise, the the rules for pikes are the same as those for spears" with two exceptions being noted. One is the supporting a model through a supporting model armed with a pike and the other is the -1 for shields, bows, and crossbows. The pike is never actually stated to be a "two-handed weapon" only that it "require[s] two hands to use." These terms are not interchangeable in the rules though it would seem otherwise in common language. For a weapon follows the rule for being a two-handed weapon it must be stated explicitly as a "two-handed weapon" and the same for hand weapons and hand-and-a-half weapons. The entry for spears on page 84 states that a spear may be used "as a hand weapon during the fight phase." The pike follows the rules for the spear with only the listed additions from the pike entry. Therefore, because the pike is not listed as a "two-handed weapon" in the pike entry, it is still considered a hand weapon just as the spear is. It is my understanding that he remark about requiring two hands to use is explanatory in nature and serves to provide a logical reason for the existence of the -1 being incurred when used with the wargear lists to the players. |
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| Author: | Gundalad [ Fri Oct 04, 2019 6:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Pikes - supporting attacks that are two-handed |
Thank you for your response Wan Shi Tong, I can see what you mean that it is described as requiring two hands to use rather than stating this is a “two-handed” weapon the way that other similar weapons are described, it’s a small thing but in rule writing I accept you are likely correct, I feel it might of been a slight over sight that it wasn’t clarified when it was written, although to be fair the rule book has very few of these confusions and is far more concrete than before. |
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| Author: | Grumpy Gnome [ Sat Jun 13, 2020 2:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Pikes - supporting attacks that are two-handed |
A very interesting interpretation of the pike rules Gundalad. I had not read them that way but I have to admit I like the concept since I do not see pikes as particularly nuanced weapons, having dabbled in ECW re-enacting. I believe Wan Shi Tong is correct in the official rules but I think my wife and I will add the duel penalty to pikes in our house rules, giving Galadhrim Court Guard an exception and thereby making their use of pikes a bit more interesting. |
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| Author: | Salattu [ Sun Jun 14, 2020 10:43 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Pikes - supporting attacks that are two-handed |
Previously 2-handed-weapons could not be supported by spears or pikes at all, has this changed? |
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| Author: | Grumpy Gnome [ Sun Jun 14, 2020 10:56 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Pikes - supporting attacks that are two-handed |
I believe it has, I do not have the rule book in front of me just now but I think in the latest edition of the rules in the section about weapons it states that you can support two handed weapons with spears and pikes. Since I learned this edition of the rules before going back to learn previous versions the change stood out to me. Edit: Page 84, second paragraph from the bottom. “A spear armed model can even support a friendly model that is prone or armed with a two handed weapon.” |
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