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 Post subject: Witchking - House Rule
PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2014 1:52 am 
Craftsman
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I thought about a house rule witchking profile for a while now, because usually a named ringwraith is chosen instead and I want to sympathize with poor withking.
Besides I don't no why the morgul crown costs 10 point more than two more attacks cost usually.

I want to highlight his abilities as caster and so a wrote a new special rule to add on his profile, or maybe the morgul crown instead of the +2 attacks.

Special Rule:
The Witchking/The crown of the Witchking:
If the Witchking casts a spell succesfully (remember the highest dice), he is allowed to try to cast another spell with only one dice, but without spending any will points. The minimum he has to role to cast this second, free speel is the maximum of the regular minimum and the highest dice rolled to cast the first spell.

I did not test it yet, but I think it could be really funny, because you have to think about the spells you want to cast even more, but with a bit risk the witchking is able to really become the WITCHking.
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 Post subject: Re: Witchking - House Rule
PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2014 3:26 am 
Kinsman
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You would just use an easy to cast magic like drain courage. And just get another attempt for free for something hard like Black dart.

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 Post subject: Re: Witchking - House Rule
PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2014 6:39 am 
Craftsman
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pokyha wrote:
You would just use an easy to cast magic like drain courage. And just get another attempt for free for something hard like Black dart.

If you want to. But don't forget you invested about 100 points playing the Witchking. I would not be satisfied with him only draining a little courage and trying to cast a black dart with one dice (1/3 to cast, 2/3 to wound).
That is exactly, what a meant with you have to think about what you really want.
Imagine you really want to transfix an enemy. Would you cast a drain courage before? Don't forget you only have one dice to cast transfix after it, so if you had a 4,5 or 6 it could be difficult to cast your transfix and if you had a 1 you are not allowed at all to cast.
The key to the use of magic is using the right spell in exactly the right situation, running across the field and only cast drain courage and black dart may won't be the optimum.
Besides you have to think about how many dice you use, because the more dice, the lower the chance to succesfully cast another spell.
I hope you see, it isn't that easy.
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 Post subject: Re: Witchking - House Rule
PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 1:18 am 
Elven Warrior
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I can understand where you are coming from - Named wraiths demand too much attention. I think the best thing to do would just be to reduce the cost of the Morgul Crown as he is already a very strong caster and well worth his points already. The reason he gets left behind is that the other wraiths have an easier time synchronising with the rest of the army, so really don't take as much tactical thought to use as the WK. Its just different playing styles and therefore different army builds.

As for the free spell rule, I like that there is a restriction of sorts, but this is completely OP, and I think you will have a hard time coming up with something which isn't OP or broken as magic is very powerful. As it stands, the WK could break most of or all enemy heroes within 5 turns, leaving him with 15 will (another 8 turns at least) to destroy them. By giving him the extra spell, you would halve the time it takes so enemy heroes would be dead or useless by turn 2-3 and for the rest of the game which is not fun or fair to someone who maybe have spent 150-300 pts on heroes.

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 Post subject: Re: Witchking - House Rule
PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 8:33 am 
Kinsman
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Well I just used the extremes you could cast Transfix on a model and then try compel them for example. Yeah it is just OP anyway.

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 Post subject: Re: Witchking - House Rule
PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 11:05 am 
Craftsman
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You have to think about how it works. Let us make an example with transfix. If you only use wann will point and get a 1 or 2 (1/3) your witchking was useless this turn. If you get a 3 (1/6) the chance your enemy resists with one dice is (2/3) so your witchking is useless in (1/9) with a 4 (1/6) resist (1/2) useless in (1/12) with a 5 (1/6) resist (1/3) useless in (1/18) with a six useless in (1/36)
so the chance not to benefit of trying to cast a free spell is 1/3+1/9+1/12+1/18+1/36=22/36=11/18>60% as long as your victim has one will point left.
Now let us see how it works, if you are succesfully cast the first spell with the chances before and saying you want to transfix another hero (who already is out of will).
If you get a three (1/6) and your enemy does not resist (1/18) you need a 3+, so the chance to succesfully transfix the second hero is (1/27) with a 4 and not resisted (1/12) you need a 4+ so it is (1/24) with a not resistet 5 (1/9) you need a 5+ (1/27) and with a not resistet six (5/18) you need a 6 so it is (5/108).
Together the chance of transfixing to heros in one round is about 16%.
To sum up with one dice chance to transfix the first hero 40%, chance to transfix the second hero 16%.

With the Morgul Crown the witchking is about 170 points, so the undying and a 2/0/1 ringwraith are only 20 points more. Same scenario:
Undying tries to transfix one hero resisting with one will. Same chance as above 40%. The unnamed wraith tries to transfix another hero who is out of will. Chance to be succesfull 2/3=66%. Sum up:
Chance to transfix no hero:
(3/5*1/3)=20% (<< 60% Witchking)
Chance to transfix only one hero:
(2/5*2/3)+(3/5*1/3)=7/15=46%(>>24% Witchking)
Chance to transfix both heros:
(2/5*2/3)=4/15=26%(>16% Witchking)

Now imagine the Witchking using more than one will point. It will get harder to cast the second spell, while undying and unnamed always have the same chance.
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 Post subject: Re: Witchking - House Rule
PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 12:08 am 
Elven Warrior
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I can understand the point you are making, but I would just roll 2 dice if they had 1, leaving me with 18 more. If he fails for one turn, that's fine, its to be expected with magic, and you can normally get 2 spells off before they get into combat anyway.

I think sap will is 3+, so I could just throw 1 dice at that, and it should cast most of the time so they are forced to spend will to resist, meaning they have none next turn, which is where the snowball happens. You are completely right, it is not OP if they have 1 will left, but once that will is gone, its too much.

I would generally consider it a mistake to have the witch king in your force without he Morgul Crown or Fell beast, as he is infinitely more effective with those. So just because he may fail to cast a spell, does not make him useless.

I can see more where you are coming from now (comparing the WK on foot to another wraith on foot and trying to make them more equal). If I was to NOT take the WK on FB or with the Crown, I would want him to have more anti troop abilities, though I can see now that the free spell is actually quite a good way of buffing him, but it would be more balanced to just give him the option to cast 2 spells per turn if he succeeds with the first one.
The problem is that I would never take him without either of those upgrades, they are just too good to pass up.

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 Post subject: Re: Witchking - House Rule
PostPosted: Sun Aug 17, 2014 10:57 am 
Kinsman
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I use him if I know I will encounter wizard and if I want a fellbeast for less than 170 pts.
I find him already amazing for this.
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 Post subject: Re: Witchking - House Rule
PostPosted: Sun Aug 17, 2014 9:21 pm 
Elven Warrior
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Frêrin wrote:
Special Rule:
The Witchking/The crown of the Witchking:
If the Witchking casts a spell succesfully (remember the highest dice), he is allowed to try to cast another spell with only one dice, but without spending any will points. The minimum he has to role to cast this second, free speel is the maximum of the regular minimum and the highest dice rolled to cast the first spell.

I did not test it yet, but I think it could be really funny, because you have to think about the spells you want to cast even more, but with a bit risk the witchking is able to really become the WITCHking.


I'm not sure if people seem to fully understand the limitations of the rule, if you cast Drain Courage, sure you might only need a 3+ to cast first time, but if one of your dice rolls a 5, the next spell you cast will need a 5, pretty unlikely.
I can see it costing maybe 20 points as a stand-alone special rule, I don't see how it's overpowered once that is taken into account. :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: Witchking - House Rule
PostPosted: Mon Aug 18, 2014 12:18 am 
Elven Warrior
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Good point, maybe I did miss that... makes me a lot more comfortable with the profile.

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