The One Ring :: View topic - tactics for spider queen and giant spiders

are ya MAd? XD They hack elves like knife cuts throw butter...

If you send them to the rear then Theyll make good work with traping and killing the supoort units and the opoonent cant even react to that...theyll hardly even lose a fight with 2 attacks and of The Queen is with em damn that some nasty killing... :rofl:

Maybe I am mad, but in my games we typically have to roll to see who wins the fight first.

It really isn't difficult to get a 4+ on 2 dice.

And that's the trick, which is why I didn't say he was wrong, just that it sounded much easier than it is. If an opponent sees you setting that trap and knows how to counter it, it's going to be hard to pull off.

Well I may be I maid it sound to easy but still thats how they "SHOULD" theoretically work..

On big advantage what they have accutally is that they dont depend on the charge as the cavalary does :rofl:

Spide Queen? Getting killed? Or cant fght 1 on 1 ? :lol:

no really that a good one :rofl:

Yes she is big but she is pretty much kill any kidn of troops pretty quickly considering her relativley high fught value :rofl:

Shes going to be the last one to get killed in my armys no way im sending her off to the Gil Galads breakfeast or something :lol:

The Spider Queen is, possibly, one of the most undercosted models in the game.

But the Errata states that if any of her attacks fail to wound then she can re roll them.

2 out of 6 suceed then the 4 can the re rolled :rofl:

Mouth-of-Sauron wrote:

But the Errata states that if any of her attacks fail to wound then she can re roll them.

2 out of 6 suceed then the 4 can the re rolled :rofl:

Yeah, well, the Errata needs an errata.

Seriously, I can see her at 75 points with my interpretation, and about 150 with theirs. So it's our house rule. If I ever play a tournament, I'll be mindful.

if what you say i true then she will always wound 6 times if she wins combat. our house rule is that dice may only be re-rolled once, also when a single warrior is in range of 2 banners or something like that.

either way, that she effectively auto-wounds seems not right to me.

Author:	theavenger001 [ Sun Mar 22, 2009 11:30 pm ]
Post subject:	tactics for spider queen and giant spiders
I'm thinking of getting some spiders to ally in to my goblin force and wanted some tactical advice for this army: durburz shaman spider queen 12 goblin shield 11 goblin spear 11 goblin bow 6 giant spiders 500 points 43 units 32% bows 6 might All I know is normal cavalry tactics, hide behind my wall of goblins until the lines crash, then flank and trap the enemy. All help appreciated. Thanks

Author:	whafrog [ Mon Mar 23, 2009 4:03 am ]
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That pretty much sums it up for spiders too, except they have softer bodies and no knockdown, so you need to be a bit more picky about your targets. Luckily, the spider queen is a monstrous mount... I would drop a spider and take 5 more goblins (or 4 prowlers) to boost your model count.

Author:	King Dain Ironfoot [ Mon Mar 23, 2009 2:45 pm ]
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Whafrog's advice is sound, but I'd also like to add that Spiders are not very good against Elves. If the Elf wins, your 25-point Giant Spider is as likely to be killed as a Goblin bowman.

Author:	Mouth-of-Sauron [ Mon Mar 23, 2009 3:47 pm ]
Post subject:
are ya MAd? XD They hack elves like knife cuts throw butter... If you send them to the rear then Theyll make good work with traping and killing the supoort units and the opoonent cant even react to that...theyll hardly even lose a fight with 2 attacks and of The Queen is with em damn that some nasty killing...

Author:	King Dain Ironfoot [ Mon Mar 23, 2009 3:54 pm ]
Post subject:
Mouth-of-Sauron wrote: are ya MAd? XD They hack elves like knife cuts throw butter... If you send them to the rear then Theyll make good work with traping and killing the supoort units and the opoonent cant even react to that...theyll hardly even lose a fight with 2 attacks and of The Queen is with em damn that some nasty killing... Maybe I am mad, but in my games we typically have to roll to see who wins the fight first. The Spider Queen will never, EVER be in the position to be in a 2-on-1 fight alongside the Giant Spiders. Her base is simply too large. Yes, if you can press the advantage of numbers against the Elves it helps, but usually because of their bigger bases you charge around back and end up fighting at least 2 spearmen. Basically if they win the fight (not difficult for them considering their higher Fight, equal Attacks and your lack of Might) your Spider WILL die. It really isn't difficult to get a 4+ on 2 dice. Admittedly, your Spiders should kill the Elves if they win the fight, but considering that your model is 2.5 times the cost of theirs it's still a significant gamble. Against most opponents they need to be careful, as Whafrog said. Against Elves, your circumstances to charge must be near-perfect.

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Author:	General Haar [ Mon Mar 23, 2009 4:41 pm ]
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King Dain Ironfoot wrote: Maybe I am mad, but in my games we typically have to roll to see who wins the fight first. Really? Man, that's strange. Quote: It really isn't difficult to get a 4+ on 2 dice. On average, you shouldn't. I know that I rarely kill a spider outright with one man with support. It does happen, but not as often as you seem to think it will. And then there are those times where you don't roll higher than a four on either of them. It doesn't only apply to Elves. Elves have a Fight skill advantage, yes, but spiders are always a gamble. If they lose combat, they're going to get hurt. If they win, they're going to do serious damage. You should be aiming to attack a max of two people per turn with the spiders, preferably only one. You may be able to take two against a F3 opponent. M-o-S, you're making it seem way easier than it is to trap and kill things. Don't forget that a smart opponent will shield if they can, until they can stack up odds in their favor. King Dain, you're making it seem like Spiders will die in droves to Elves and any combat with two enemies, which is simply not true.

Author:	whafrog [ Mon Mar 23, 2009 5:39 pm ]
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M-o-S is making it sound too easy, but he does have a point. I've used armies similar to the original (with only 4 spiders, and some prowlers). The spiders are sacrificial to draw away spear support. I use them to engage as many spears as possible, even 3 if I can get it. Then I swarm the front with goblins, throwing prowlers in as needed. The trick is to set this up tactically, manuevering for the opportunity, and you have to arrive with superior numbers. If you can do it, if the dice are even average you should end up with 1 dead spider, 1 or 2 dead spearmen, and some dead front-line elves. Each dead frontline elf is 2 or 3 more goblins with which to swarm the rest, while each live frontline elf can only kill one goblin. If you can sacrifice basic goblins to hold the heroes in check and use the spider queen on the front line, so much the merrier. Divide and conquer...

Author:	General Haar [ Mon Mar 23, 2009 6:37 pm ]
Post subject:
And that's the trick, which is why I didn't say he was wrong, just that it sounded much easier than it is. If an opponent sees you setting that trap and knows how to counter it, it's going to be hard to pull off.

Author:	whafrog [ Mon Mar 23, 2009 7:03 pm ]
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General Haar wrote: And that's the trick, which is why I didn't say he was wrong, just that it sounded much easier than it is. If an opponent sees you setting that trap and knows how to counter it, it's going to be hard to pull off. Agreed.

Author:	theavenger001 [ Mon Mar 23, 2009 10:59 pm ]
Post subject:
Thanks for all the replies, what I'm hearing is that I will have to be careful as they have low defense and if they lose a fight or are opened up to bows I could be in trouble. Thanks and look in the help with miniatures forum if you know were to get spiders other than GW's.

Author:	Mouth-of-Sauron [ Tue Mar 24, 2009 4:17 pm ]
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Well I may be I maid it sound to easy but still thats how they "SHOULD" theoretically work.. On big advantage what they have accutally is that they dont depend on the charge as the cavalary does Spide Queen? Getting killed? Or cant fght 1 on 1 ? no really that a good one Yes she is big but she is pretty much kill any kidn of troops pretty quickly considering her relativley high fught value Shes going to be the last one to get killed in my armys no way im sending her off to the Gil Galads breakfeast or something

Author:	King Dain Ironfoot [ Tue Mar 24, 2009 9:08 pm ]
Post subject:
Mouth-of-Sauron wrote: Well I may be I maid it sound to easy but still thats how they "SHOULD" theoretically work.. On big advantage what they have accutally is that they dont depend on the charge as the cavalary does Spide Queen? Getting killed? Or cant fght 1 on 1 ? no really that a good one Yes she is big but she is pretty much kill any kidn of troops pretty quickly considering her relativley high fught value Shes going to be the last one to get killed in my armys no way im sending her off to the Gil Galads breakfeast or something Ok, she's NOT invincible. Even Gil-Galad and Aragorn can be killed when surrounded (trust me, I've done it to both on a few occasions) even by normal troops. The Queen has a Defence of 4 and no Fate to boot. It isn't hard to get 4-6 troops around that big base of hers. I also never said she couldn't fight one-on-one. I said she couldn't help out Giant Spiders in their combats. The Spider Queen is, possibly, one of the most undercosted models in the game. The fact that she isn't unique (despite the entry referring to her as "THE Spider Queen" and "she" rather than "they") adds to this.

Author:	whafrog [ Wed Mar 25, 2009 2:45 am ]
Post subject:
King Dain Ironfoot wrote: The Spider Queen is, possibly, one of the most undercosted models in the game. It depends how you interpret her reroll to wound rule. We interpret it as she only gets to reroll if ALL her wound rolls fail.

Author:	Mouth-of-Sauron [ Wed Mar 25, 2009 1:08 pm ]
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But the Errata states that if any of her attacks fail to wound then she can re roll them. 2 out of 6 suceed then the 4 can the re rolled

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Author:	whafrog [ Wed Mar 25, 2009 4:41 pm ]
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Mouth-of-Sauron wrote: But the Errata states that if any of her attacks fail to wound then she can re roll them. 2 out of 6 suceed then the 4 can the re rolled Yeah, well, the Errata needs an errata. Seriously, I can see her at 75 points with my interpretation, and about 150 with theirs. So it's our house rule. If I ever play a tournament, I'll be mindful.

Author:	King Dain Ironfoot [ Wed Mar 25, 2009 8:31 pm ]
Post subject:
whafrog wrote: Mouth-of-Sauron wrote: But the Errata states that if any of her attacks fail to wound then she can re roll them. 2 out of 6 suceed then the 4 can the re rolled Yeah, well, the Errata needs an errata. Seriously, I can see her at 75 points with my interpretation, and about 150 with theirs. So it's our house rule. If I ever play a tournament, I'll be mindful. Ah, true. I always thought she could re-roll any of her Attacks that fail to wound. I've also come across the viewpoint that she can re-roll EVERY failed wound. Ei, keep rolling until she's wounded 6 times. Boy, was that kid [word deleted] when I showed him the "you can't re-roll a re-roll" clause

Author:	Phantom_Lord [ Sat Apr 04, 2009 12:16 pm ]
Post subject:
if what you say i true then she will always wound 6 times if she wins combat. our house rule is that dice may only be re-rolled once, also when a single warrior is in range of 2 banners or something like that. either way, that she effectively auto-wounds seems not right to me.

Author:	King Dain Ironfoot [ Sat Apr 04, 2009 12:42 pm ]
Post subject:
Phantom_Lord wrote: if what you say i true then she will always wound 6 times if she wins combat. our house rule is that dice may only be re-rolled once, also when a single warrior is in range of 2 banners or something like that. either way, that she effectively auto-wounds seems not right to me. There is a paragraph in the rulebook (SOMEWHERE! Why didn't I bookmark it? ) that states a dice can only be re-rolled once. I've had numerous kids in tournaments try to pull that one on me. Thank god that Spider Queen in a pita to assemble!

Author:	Gothmog 3rd [ Sat Apr 04, 2009 1:12 pm ]
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I have to agrre with Dain on this one, You can only re-roll a dice one time, you can never re-roll a re-roll. Page 10 hardback rulebook