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Guthlaf
https://ww.one-ring.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=14621		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  King Elessar the Uniter [ Mon Mar 30, 2009 6:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Guthlaf
Does anyone have any ideas for a suitable profile for Guthlaf (Theoden's banner bearer)? I was thinking of a profile pretty similar to Gamling's, though I'm not sure if Guthlaf would be an actual hero or just a warrior that Tolkien decided to name. I do think though that Guthlaf would have been a bit better than the average guard, seeing as he is trusted to carry the King's standard.

Any thoughts would be gratefully appreciated! :-D
Author:  Gondolin [ Mon Mar 30, 2009 8:33 pm ]
Post subject: 
Perhaps like Damrod or Beregond?
Author:  King Dain Ironfoot [ Mon Mar 30, 2009 9:28 pm ]
Post subject: 
I agree. I think he should have almost the exact profile of Beregond, including the heavy armour (I assume the Royal Standard Bearer was a RRG in the books as well) and maybe a special rule allowing him to carry a shield and banner at the same time - an amendment of sorts to the "Expert Rider" rule.
Author:  King Elessar the Uniter [ Wed Apr 01, 2009 4:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Thanks!
Thanks for your help guys! The Beregond profile base is a really good idea! 8)

Should Guthlaf automatically come with a shield, or should it be an additional option, and if so, how many points?

Cheers! :)
Author:  Gondolin [ Wed Apr 01, 2009 4:52 pm ]
Post subject: 
I wouldn't give him a shield, cause he can't wear with because of the banner. I think this would be a good profile (with the banner)

Guthlaf 25 points

4/- 4 6 1 1 4 M1 W1 F1

Wargear: Sword

Horse - 6 pts
Theoden's Banner - ? pts
Author:  King Dain Ironfoot [ Wed Apr 01, 2009 5:05 pm ]
Post subject: 
Ok, maybe the shield rule is ott. I'd still add in Bodyguard though, since Guthlaf was presumably a Royal Guard.
Author:  King Elessar the Uniter [ Fri Apr 03, 2009 10:49 am ]
Post subject: 
Right, no shield. 8)

Next thing: the banner. Should he automatically come with it?
He's only described as carrying the banner in the books and it would stop people using him as a lesser hero just for might etc.

Cheers! :)
Author:  Gondolin [ Fri Apr 03, 2009 11:35 am ]
Post subject: 
I would do something with courage. Guthlaf died with the banner in his hand and Eomer had to take it from him after Guthlaf's death. A man, so bound with the banner, should be a courage kick for all.

And he should come with the banner and maybe even only when Theoden is present. Or maybe, when Theoden is in the game, he costs less.

He should have body guard to protect Theoden.
Author:  King Elessar the Uniter [ Fri Apr 03, 2009 11:52 am ]
Post subject: 
Yeah, good ideas! 8)
I think he should only be included in an army where Theoden is present.
For better courage - should he have a courage of 5 or a special rule? :)
Author:  Gondolin [ Fri Apr 03, 2009 12:00 pm ]
Post subject: 
Courage 5 and Bodyguard would be better, cause Beregond has Bodyguard too and he also carries a longbow, but he costs 25 points. So when we make Guthlaf 25 points, he would cost more for less :P
Author:  King Elessar the Uniter [ Fri Apr 03, 2009 12:04 pm ]
Post subject: 
Yep, fair point! 8)

Right, should we change the banner special rule? Over on TLA they seem to have amended it a bit: range of 6 inches, special rule includes the banner bearer and costs 25pts. :)
Author:  Gondolin [ Fri Apr 03, 2009 12:10 pm ]
Post subject: 
Yeah, I think we should. Maybe all within 8cm of the banner automatic pass all courage test or would that be too easy and should we think of something more original?
Author:  theavenger001 [ Fri Apr 03, 2009 4:20 pm ]
Post subject: 
IMHO it should be something like a +3 courage modifier within 8cm as otherwise it's as good as the banner of Arwen Evenstar that Halberad carries.
Author:  des-tiny [ Sat Apr 04, 2009 11:09 am ]
Post subject:  banner
give him a banner and a little modification to his "bodyguard" special rule

Theodens banner carrier
guthalf ma only be included if theoden is presesnt
Author:  Phantom_Lord [ Sat Apr 04, 2009 11:29 am ]
Post subject:  rules for the banner
guess you could give the banner a rule like fury, that all warriors within 8cm of it will survive a wound as if a point of faith had been expended on a roll of 5+. the explaination for this could be that they dont wanna let the king down by dying. but then he should also cost more points i guess.
Author:  King Elessar the Uniter [ Sun Apr 05, 2009 11:23 am ]
Post subject: 
I really like that idea Phantom_Lord! :yay:

So a profile like this:

Guthlaf - Points Value: ??

F/S S D A W C M/W/F
4/- 4 6 1 1 5 1/1/1

Wargear
Guthlaf carries a sword and the Royal Standard of Rohan and wears heavy armour. He can be given the following items at additional cost:

Horse.........................................6pts

Special Rules:

Expert Rider.
Loyal to the King. Guthlaf can only be included in your force if Theoden is also present. As long as Theoden is alive Guthlaf will automatically pass all courage tests he is forced to take. If Theoden dies or leaves the table, Guthlaf reverts to the normal rules for courage.


(I thought it would be best to change the name of the bodyguard rule so players do not get mixed up thinking it is just the normal bodyguard rule).

Should there be a special rule that means Guthlaf has to stay as near to Theoden as possible? (Though this might mean his bodyguard rule becomes less useful and the limit to him only being used in the same force as Theoden might be enough!).

Any thoughts, especially about the points cost (I was thinking around - 75pts?), would be appreciated! :)
Author:  Phantom_Lord [ Sun Apr 05, 2009 3:24 pm ]
Post subject:  banner
i think 75 points is about right, the banner included of course.
also you could give him a special rule so he doesn't get -1 to win the fight when carrying the banner
Author:  Gothmog 3rd [ Sun Apr 05, 2009 3:50 pm ]
Post subject: 
What about giving him the same special rule as Mardin (the Dwarf with spear that comes with Durin) has. This will make him curagious and it will make people keep him close to the king.
When it comes to the banner rule maybe it can be:

In addition to the normal effects of a banner, all Rohan models within 3" of "This Banner" adds 1 to their curage value. In addition, Guthlaf has been the royal standard bearer for so long that he has learnt to fight as well with it as without it, therefore he does not suffer the usual -1 penalty when determinating who wins the fight.

I too think 75 points is a reasonable prize.
Author:  King Dain Ironfoot [ Sun Apr 05, 2009 8:18 pm ]
Post subject: 
Wait, why are we changing the special rule that the Royal Standard of Rohan has? It's an effective one as-is.

I'll also agree on the points value of 75.
Author:  King Elessar the Uniter [ Thu Apr 09, 2009 12:12 pm ]
Post subject: 
Phantom_Lord wrote:
also you could give him a special rule so he doesn't get -1 to win the fight when carrying the banner


Yeah, good idea! 8)

King Dain Ironfoot wrote:
Wait, why are we changing the special rule that the Royal Standard of Rohan has? It's an effective one as-is.


Yeah it is, but I think Phantom_Lord's idea seems to fit the character better. Also the banner will become more useful throughout the game, rather than just when a hero eventually runs out of might; it will be used in pretty much every combat phase. And I think it seems fair that good get to use the "fury" special rule. Though lots of people have got new ideas about the banner's affects, so it can still be changed/amended/left alone... :)


Gothmog 3rd wrote:
What about giving him the same special rule as Mardin (the Dwarf with spear that comes with Durin) has. This will make him curagious and it will make people keep him close to the king.


Sorry, I don't know anything about this rule - could you explain it please? :)
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