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Creating New Profiles
https://ww.one-ring.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=15450		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  BrightLance [ Mon Jun 22, 2009 3:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Creating New Profiles
It seems like there is a lot of talk about fan-supplements for SBG, (due to the lack of forthcoming official material), so this mini-article will show YOU (yes, you) how to make your very own LoTR:SBG units and heroes!

If you don't like math, too bad for you.

[h2]Units and warriors[/h2]
Start with the following profile:

..F.....S.D.A.W.C
3/4+.3.3..1.1.3

This is the base profile, and it is worth 5pts off the bat. It includes a hand-weapon, but nothing else.

Max profile: (You can never go any higher than this in any of the stats)
Quote:
..F.....S.D.A.W.C
6/3+.4.7..2.1.6

(This profile costs 21 points...)
    For each stat-line increase (Shoot value free): 1pt
    For each attack value increase: 5pts
    For each stat-line decrease: -1pt (no stat can be 0)
    For each special rule: Free (1pt if not a "natural" rule, like 'bodyguard')
    For each powerful special rule: 2pts (like 'Blades of the Dead')



So a profile of
Quote:
Guardian of the Bear
..F.....S.D.A.W.C
3/4+.4.5..1.1.3
Special Rules:
Bodyguard


would cost 9pts.

Weapons and Arms
Generic weapons can be taken by anybody.
Specific weapons can only be taken by warriors of the same faction that the item comes from.

[spoiler]
    Weapons
    Non-specific
    Hand-weapon.............Free
    Spear.........................1pt
    Shield........................1pt
    Lance.........................1pt
    two handed weapon.....1pt
    Mount........................5pts+1pt if warrior is greater than FV 3
    Armored mount...........9pts

    Good Generic
    Bow............................1pt
    Longbow/elf bow..........2pts
    Elven Blade.................1pts
    Elven Cloak.................4pts
    Banner........................~30pts (Lower/higher depending on median FV)

    Good Specific
    Pike.................................2pts (Fiefdoms, Galadrim)
    Halberd/Ax of Lossanarch....2pts (Fiefdoms)
    Short Bow (Dwarven).........1pt (Dwarves)
    Thrown weapons................2pts (Dwarves, Elves, Rohan)

    Evil Generic
    Orc Bow.....................1pt
    Banner........................~25 points (Lower/higher depending on median FV)

    Evil Specific
    Crossbow.................2pts (Uruk-hai)
    Pike.........................1pts (Uruk-hai)
    War Spear....................1pt (Harad, Far Harad)
    Blowpipe.....................1pt (Far Harad)
    Easterling pike.............2pts (Easterlings)
    Poisoned bow..............1pt (Harad)
    Bow...........................1pt (Easterlings)
    "Elven Cloak"............4pts (Mordor)
[/spoiler]

I've run out of time for now, but how to make heroes will be up soon.
Author:  whafrog [ Mon Jun 22, 2009 5:34 pm ]
Post subject: 
Doesn't quite work that way. Yes, the base profile is worth 5 points, but a base Elf is worth 7 points, yet he has +2 Fight, +2 Courage, -1 Shoot, and the special rule Woodland Creature. Or a Corsair is worth 7 points, but has +1 Fight and throwing daggers.

The only way this works for Elves is if Fight and Courage are worth 1/2 point each and Woodland Creature is free, and for Corsairs only if the +1 Fight is free.

(I think every warrior type gets some kind of freebie, eg: Cave Dweller, or Osgiliath Vets getting +1 Fight when the Gondor brothers are around...the freebies are usually something that are very context specific and so hard to pin a value on.)

Attacks appears to usually be worth 5 points: compare the Corsair with the Reaver. The latter has no throwing weapon (-2 points)...in fact no shooting at all, but +1 Fight and 2 attacks, for a 10 point model. So either the Fight is worth 1 point and the attacks are worth 4 points, or the Fight is free and the attacks are worth 5 points. This makes sense, because an extra die is a huge advantage, as are two dice to wound if you win.
Author:  BrightLance [ Mon Jun 22, 2009 8:54 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Doesn't quite work that way.

Yes, it does not work EXACTLY that way- but making a different base profile just takes longer, and the method as explained above is accurate enough to create balanced warriors.

Yes, an extra attack costs 5pts.

Certain nuances are not factored in. I was only giving a (mostly) balanced method of profile generation, and it usually comes out right. You are right, certain armies have cheaper (or free) or more expensive equipment/rules, like the Dwarf ranger's equipment (which is +3pts, compared to the normal +1, +2 for human bow and thrown weapons, respectively) is more expensive because of how it fits into the rest of the army list.
Author:  Lord Hurin [ Mon Jun 22, 2009 9:19 pm ]
Post subject: 
It seems to me that typically, a model's Shoot Value doesn't add or subtract points. Look at an Orc vs. a Warrior of Rohan: 1 point less due to the lower Courage, and the higher Sv is not considered. Do a similar equation with almost any two troop types and I think you'll find this as well.
Author:  BrightLance [ Tue Jun 23, 2009 2:00 am ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
It seems to me that typically, a model's Shoot Value doesn't add or subtract points.

This is one more of the race/faction specific things. Elves have 3+, men 4+, orcs 5+ at 'no additional cost'. I included a "price" because SV can be very powerful when coupled with a weapon like a crossbow or throwing weapons. I might only make it cost points if the model actually has one of the aforementioned weapons for balance's sake.
Author:  whafrog [ Tue Jun 23, 2009 2:33 am ]
Post subject: 
BrightLance wrote:
Yes, it does not work EXACTLY that way- but making a different base profile just takes longer, and the method as explained above is accurate enough to create balanced warriors.


Not really. Just two examples showed how quickly things would get out of whack. Say you created an elite warrior of Harad who shared the same stats as an Elf except for the Woodland Creature rule. Your method would give a cost of 10 points. Not a profile anyone would use.

Quote:
I included a "price" because SV can be very powerful when coupled with a weapon like a crossbow or throwing weapons.


That's why the pricing can't be taken out of context of the army the troops are in, and the equipment options available.
Author:  hithero [ Tue Jun 23, 2009 8:37 am ]
Post subject: 
A few mistakes there.
Pikes (Easterling pike 2pt), 2-handed weapons, elven blades etc. all cost 1pt.
Horse price is dependent of F value, 5 or 6pts for F 3/4
Special rules are all free.
Shoot value is not effected by points.

The total cost is then adjusted through playtesting, notibly the elves and easterling cataphracts.
Author:  hithero [ Tue Jun 23, 2009 8:39 am ]
Post subject: 
BrightLance wrote:
Quote:
It seems to me that typically, a model's Shoot Value doesn't add or subtract points.

This is one more of the race/faction specific things. Elves have 3+, men 4+, orcs 5+ at 'no additional cost'. I included a "price" because SV can be very powerful when coupled with a weapon like a crossbow or throwing weapons. I might only make it cost points if the model actually has one of the aforementioned weapons for balance's sake.


This is what GW tried to do with dwarf rangers and everybody hated it.
Author:  Captain Ingold [ Wed Jun 24, 2009 3:54 pm ]
Post subject: 
Just reminding everyone that this exists, the Cost Calculator.

Not saying that it's any better than yours BrightLance, in fact, yours is much better! Congratulations! :yay:
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