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 Post subject: Unpainted models on the battlefield - house rule of... me.
PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 4:55 am 
Kinsman
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When we start LotRSBG a long time ago, everyone bought models, glued them together, painted one or two, and then went to battle.

Next weekend when it was battle time again, my army was finally completely painted, but my friends' models were still grey, or in best case started to be undercoated by hand, some of them having black or brown spots...

Next weekend after that, the progress still was slow by most, and the battlefield was kinda messy, there was no real feel in it (We used books as hills and stuff too, so it was very, very unproffesional =P )

So we decided that either painted models would have to gain some kind of bonus, first we were thinking of +1 fighting or giving them one might, but as we realized that most people actually painted their armies, we quickly changed to that unpainted models gets a penalty - Which is hard to say, as we kept arguing and it changed time to time.

Courage, fighting or strenght, or defense... I think we kinda agreed that courage was the best, as it didn't ruin the fighters, but still gave them a setback.

So, one of my house rules: Models who have not yet dared to go under th brush, does not have as much courage as their fellows who does, -1 courage on unpainted models!

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 Post subject: Re: Unpainted models on the battlefield - house rule of... m
PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 3:30 pm 
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Kir'Thalion wrote:
So, one of my house rules: Models who have not yet dared to go under th brush, does not have as much courage as their fellows who does, -1 courage on unpainted models!



Does primer count?

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 4:26 pm 
Elven Warrior
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Interesting idea, would probably work well at a club.

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 Post subject: Re: Unpainted models on the battlefield - house rule of... m
PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 6:50 pm 
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gaarew wrote:
Does primer count?


my armies all painted themselves in black to be harder to see at night. would i take the -1 penalty at your games?
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 6:58 pm 
Elven Warrior
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Well, from what I have seen. We didn't have to do much courage tests.

But if that motivates people to paint, it's great!
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 1:14 am 
Elven Warrior
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That's a clever house rule! I always have a need to have a fully painted army before gaming, so I don't encounter this problem.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 10:21 am 
Kinsman
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Sorry for late response, was away.

Well, painted as in atleast abit more than basecoated, just spraying the models and calling them painted isn't really a painted model. But it's hard to make an exact line as of that players paint their models diffrently detailed.

But something like, undercoat, then drybrush chainmail, weapon, and then paint the clothing atleast with a base colour, and the faces/hands (or other exposed skin areas).

If you've got a Khazad Guard for example, you've sprayed it and drybrushed your chainmail and painted the axe, and got a metal undercoat on the helm, the beard is a large area, therefor it needs paint (unless the model is supposed to have black beard, then highlight it or something), shoes can be black in most cases, unless they're part of the armor (Soldiers of Minas Tirith I think got plate boots matching their armors?)

We've had some argues there aswell, a friend had sprayed his models and said he was going to paint them, and they shouldn't have a penalty. But in my own opinion, spraying isn't enough.

Details such as buttons, ornaments on shields in some cases (Galadrim shields for example), or eyes and such small details doesn't need to be painted to avoid the penalty.

In the past I never cared for painting eyes on LotR models anyhow, on the battlefield it looks quite good enough when gaming to have a skin-coloured face, perhaps with some highlights and stuff... Now I'm trying to paint everything, and it takes double the time of painting it to be battle ready. =P

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 5:51 pm 
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Well just like what you said Nurin, some basic colours on the mini's.
I have 2 different types of painting.

The first one is tabletop ready, with basic colours on them and based.
Most of the time with a couple of highlights.

The second one is the metal, elite and heroes type.
I paint all of the fine details on those miniatures.
And they look much better than the other miniatures.
And most of the time I'm painting them for a couple of hours.

But as soon as I have time I try to paint a couple of miniatures.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 5:58 pm 
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Yeah, as I said - They don't have to be pro-painted, just table-ready. =) Of course it's nice if the heroes or other models (Cave Trolls and other large creatures which catches the eye.) somewhat more detailed.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 7:33 pm 
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Very clever idea. 8)

But what about armies like moria, black gate, morgul etc, low courage hord armies? They take longer to paint and need courage more than normal forces and so need some other rules!

Not sure about the rules but I can list the armies.

p,s, I can'ot tell whether harad the serpent hord and far harad counts as a
low courage force.

Minas Morgul,
Dol Guldur,
Baradur,
Black Gate,
Cirith ungol,
Angmar,
Moria,
Dwellers bellow,
Dunland
and Sharky's rouges.


And yeah realy. 8)

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 7:44 pm 
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Well, one courage up or down for them won't really matter alot...

But painting an orc table-ready isn't that hard?

Spray it, metal, the main cloth, skin - done for the table, no need for shading or lining or anything.

Same with goblins spray them, metal, skin, cloth - done for the table.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 3:44 pm 
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Sorry, I meant THE ARMY not the minis there are a lot more models to paint than galadrim or legions of the white-hand.
:orc: :orc: :orc: :orc: :orc: :orc: :orc: :orc: :orc: :orc: :orc: :orc: etc

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 5:54 pm 
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Zilegil, you have managed where few have failed to manage - You just got me confused.

But uh.. When building an army, do you set up a goal for 2000 points, go to the store and buy the entire army and then start painting? o.O

Myself I buy some models, then start painting them, once I'm done, I go buy some more and continues. This way it will always seem as you've done most of the job, even though you just painted a blister of 3 Khazad Guards, and the army goal is for 30.

I think that should answer the question I did not understand.. Perhaps not.. *shrugs*

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 7:12 pm 
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The quality of painting in my local group is amazing (we have a Golden Demon in our store's display case from one of our premier players), so this sort of thing has never been an issue for the most part. Often though we will use unpainted or unfinished models while testing out a new army or tactics, or sometimes use a proxy model before commiting cash to something expensive ( I played with a toy owl yellow-tacked to a 60mm base to stand in for Gwahir in a recent game ). But most of us won't play models more than once unless we have them painted up pretty well. But because this isn't very common we're very understanding when it has to happen.

One thing we're doing to help encourage some painting of new forces as we're getting into WotR is running a Tale of Gamers. This could be done very easily for SBG or WotR and if you have at least 4-6 local players it can be really fun. Fewer than that and there may not be as much compitition but you can still have bragging rights. If you have a local store you're all buying things from you may even be able to get them to sponsor the competition by giving a blister or box of plastic warriors to the winner (the cost from their inventory would be far less than the money they make from 4 or more players buying models and paints every month).

The way ours works is basically this:

Everyone picks an army. We set a level of 250 points per Round. You need to prove to the other players that your 250 points of models are unpainted (pics, show them the box, talk them into buying them for you, whatever works). Then you have a month to paint them up. In SBG this will give you an average of one unnamed Hero and most of a box of plastics, for example. In WotR it can be significantly more unless you're adding in Command or Heroes or more elite Formations.

Everyone shows up on Judgment Day. Any models not painted to at least "table top standards" don't count. This usually means 3-4 colors ( flesh, armor, cloth, hair for example ) plus some flock or sand on the base. This level will get you a basic amount of points ( example: 3). If they have highlights, shading, finished bases, etc. then you get +1 point. If you did detail work on all models and/or have some conversion work then you get +1 point. So you have a max of 5 points for painting. All participants also vote on their favorite for that Round and the winner gets +1 point.

You then play some games with those models. Generally 2-3 per Round, and the winner of each game gets +1 point. So if you're a decent painter (4-5 points) but a great player (+2 or +3) then you have as much chance of winning the ToG as a great painter (5-6 points) (assuming that person isn't also your best player!!!). Any models disqualified from the paint competition CANNOT be played so be careful.

You add another 250 points each Round and repeat as long as you want. You only judge painting each Round on new models but all models in your ToG army so far are played. Set a goal of how large your final army will be and pace the ToG appropriately. If you all have busy schedules maybe use fewer points or go more than 30 days. If you're all crazy-mad with free time then up the challenge.

The thing about this (as the ToG here on the board as well) is to encourage the painting rather than punish the lack of it. Some players just like to play though and have little interest in the painting side of things, but if there's gaming involved with a prize at the end then they may think otherwise.

Our local game board ( Elite Hobbies Online ) has a subforum for our ToG. Our Round One just completed recently and we're working on Round Two for later in October. Here's our Round One Results thread: http://www.elitehobbiesonline.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=1219

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 7:52 pm 
Elven Warrior
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Really good ideas Beowulf03809! 8)

Though it looks as if the site has moved here:
http://www.seacoastgamers.com/
Though there's nothing about the ToG there!

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 8:05 pm 
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Typical...we're renaming and moving and they decide to do it on the afternoon I posted a link. :shock: :rofl: :shock: And I just went there to GET the link about 2 minutes before posting it. :oops:

Brian will probably have the forums back on their feet in a couple hours but I'll update the link when I know where we are. 8)

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 6:21 am 
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Now you have confused me berewolf! :rofl:

Basically, I do buy my whole army at once and so do most teenagers especially 40k player.


I dont know why? :roll:

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 11:29 am 
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Every time I try that, I end up sitting there with 4-5 painted models, then too lazy to paint the rest, seing how many there are left... *throws a frown towards the Necron army*

40 Necron Warriors - 1 painted, a few others sprayed and with some test-paints on them.
1 monolith - unpainted.
1 Necron Immortal - painted.
1 Necron Lord - painted.
10 bases of Scarab Swarms - unpainted.

Seeing 40 unpainted models just makes me feel... tired. =P

I don't have any 40K idea for replacement of the courage, perhaps on LD instead. It feels as if LD is alot more important in 40K though, than Courage in LotRSBG.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 12:59 pm 
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A ToG is actually a great motivator to cut thru backlogs, if that's what confused in my post. Just show your friends your unpainted models for that Round. I had 96 Orc, 24 Morannons, 36 Warg Riders, a few Trolls, Spider Queens and Giant Spiders when I started my ToG Dol Guldur army. Not needing to buy much but a great excuse to get these guys painted so I can play them.

So the ToG format rewards painting the models, rather than punishing not having them painted. But it really depends on what gets your local folks motivated. Some people respond to carrots, some to sticks...and some to round house kicks.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2009 6:57 pm 
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And just to correct my earlier post, here's the updated link (which I hope won't change again) to our Round One results.

http://www.seacoastgamers.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=1219

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