The One Ring
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Using dead/older heros
https://ww.one-ring.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=23531		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Mikaroo [ Mon Jul 30, 2012 4:16 am ]
Post subject:  Using dead/older heros
Hey guys,

I have a question. My friend wants to build a dwarf army but we have mixed opinions on what heros you can field. Other than Gimli, almost every other hero is either dead or from an older age (Dain, Durin etc.) So what we are saying is Durin would never fight Lurtz or any other Third age hero, so unless you were facing the warriors of the last alliance, you would never use Sauron.

So why would he buy an awesome model like Durin/Mardin or Dain if he can't use him. We don't do scenarios, just straight up last man standing fights.

I honestly think it shouldn't matter if Gil Galad is fighting with Legolas against the Uruk Hai etc.

So what is the verdict?

Thanks in advance!
Author:  ResurrectedBones [ Mon Jul 30, 2012 4:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Using dead/older heros
In my own games, we try to keep with what would actually take place, but that's mostly because we're pretty big fans of the actual Tolkien lore. But if it's going to be more fun/less expensive to play with models you already have, or those that are just cheaper, go for it.
Who says Murin's model couldn't be the model for some less well known dwarf lord somewhere else? As long as you're, like me, not too worried about tournaments and have pretty easy going opponents, it shouldn't matter. We ultimately play for the fun of it.
Author:  KnightyKnight [ Mon Jul 30, 2012 7:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Using dead/older heros
In a friendly game I don't see an issue. Sure, I'm not too keen on mixing eras myself, but that's just a personal preference since I enjoy building my armies around a theme that is based on or could easily fit into the lore and history.

And to be honest, sometimes it can be fun to play 'what if?' scenarios. What if Sauron did lead a personal attack into Erebor? What if Gil-Galad survived and continued to fight amongst his elven kin?

As long as everyone participating is in agreement and on the same page you should be fine. I definitely wouldn't decline a game against you :)

And as ResurrectedBones says, you could always say that you're using a certain hero as an unsung captain or king if you want to field the model but can't use their profile. Again, just check beforehand, find a mutual agreement and enjoy the game.
Author:  tlotrsbg [ Mon Jul 30, 2012 8:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Using dead/older heros
this is just down to you and your playing partners choice, but imo I wouldnt worry too much about any of that as it gets in the way of games you could create and lets face it alot of games we play and the charecters in them even in the same time zones probably wouldnt take place especially if you are not following the scenarios ... which on a side note is a shame as the scenarios for lotr are very numerous and make for very interesting and exciting games that can make things more tense and not just based on who is the better fighting army I also like that some scenarios give less points to 1 side at times based on the circumstances

but I digress, its up to you but if its fun to make a ''what if'' army then why stop it for real Tolkien lore?, the emphasis imo should really be the fun part!. Perhaps you could play the game as a dream some dwarf had or something heh.
Author:  cereal_theif [ Mon Jul 30, 2012 10:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Using dead/older heros
I almost only use dead heroes for my Good armies of late. And they usually don't die when i use them!
Who cares if your opponent cant be bothered to field a 2nd age army, that isnt your fault (to reverse your original arguement)

Ringwraiths may well fight Durin, so may urak captains (but probably not lurtz, true... maybe Vrasku as who is Vrasku anyway?)
Do we really know the age of the urak hai n orcs to be able to judge their lifespan? Maybe the captains of the 3rd age were the guys who ran away at the end of the 2nd to hide from the rampant elves.
Author:  GothmogtheWerewolf [ Mon Jul 30, 2012 3:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Using dead/older heros
Mikaroo wrote:
unless you were facing the warriors of the last alliance, you would never use Sauron.

Not so, Sauron could have joined in at the Black Gate, or even Pelennor Fields if he wanted to, as a What If, he still has a body you know.
Author:  Pindergorn [ Mon Jul 30, 2012 3:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Using dead/older heros
GothmogtheWerewolf wrote:
Mikaroo wrote:
unless you were facing the warriors of the last alliance, you would never use Sauron.

Not so, Sauron could have joined in at the Black Gate, or even Pelennor Fields if he wanted to, as a What If, he still has a body you know.


But without the One Ring he was greatly weakened compared to his glory days during the Last Alliance and was probably too afraid to face Gandalf and co. in person.
Author:  GothmogtheWerewolf [ Mon Jul 30, 2012 3:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Using dead/older heros
Sauron does not fear Gandalf, though caution he has, but he certainly wouldn't have the Ring, so he would die easier (gamewise).

As for those who were dead before the 3rd Age, I would say no, unless you were using the model to represent a 3rd Age Hero eg Isildur could be the Lord of Pelagir or something.
Author:  SouthernDunedain [ Mon Jul 30, 2012 4:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Using dead/older heros
If you are playing a scenario, then no. Any other time then yes. It's your army, you can pick and choose who you like.
Author:  hobbitlord [ Mon Jul 30, 2012 4:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Using dead/older heros
i myself like to use a certain age for my armies e.g i would only use gil-galad if it were a second age themed army, but i would use the army no matter what time peroid my opponents army was set in and i would let he, she use a second age or forth age themed army if i were using an third age army it means nothing to me about whos fighting who as long as the armies are set within a certain time peroid.
Author:  Draugluin [ Mon Jul 30, 2012 4:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Using dead/older heros
You really limit yourself if you choose dwarves AND want to play according to the story. Unless you only fight goblins or Easterlings, you'll have to be ok with having people from different eras fighting each other.
Author:  Pindergorn [ Mon Jul 30, 2012 5:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Using dead/older heros
As themed armies go, you can only really account for your own army. When I choose my armies, I try to maintain an internal theme. e.g. if I'm playing Early Third Age armies like Arnor - I only use characters that are relevant to that time period (no Aragorn, Boromir, Faramir as allies etc). Or I take a profile and rename it as a unique character using a unique model (using Halbarad Dunadan's profile and the Duinhir model to represent Aranarth, the First Chieftan of the Dunedain after the fall of Arthedain).

As for your opponent, unless you've arranged a game beforehand and requested a certain army (e.g. Angmar vs my Arnor), you can't know what they might field. Hopefully they'll have their own internal theme, even if its not compatible with yours (from the same time period).
Author:  boromir_of_ithilien [ Mon Jul 30, 2012 5:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Using dead/older heros
Mikaroo wrote:
Other than Gimli, almost every other hero is either dead or from an older age (Dain, Durin etc.)


I'm pretty sure that GW's Dain model is Dain II Ironfoot who fought in the Battle of the Five Armies. He was still alive during the late Third age and defended Erebor during the War of the Ring, where he died. 8)

I'm also thinking of starting a thematic dwarf army and I think it's alright to pair Gimli and Dain up because I think that Gimli actually lived in Erebor as well, alongside his father. :gimli:
Author:  Draugluin [ Mon Jul 30, 2012 7:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Using dead/older heros
It's funny, because unless you have Gimli leading the dwarves of the Glittering Caves, he never actually led any dwarves in battle.
Author:  SeveredHead [ Tue Jul 31, 2012 12:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Using dead/older heros
In a friendly game, it is up to you and your opponent. Donot limit yourself to what GW provides in terms of scenarios, army list and game suggestions. If you and your opponent are fine fielding "dead/older heros," then enjoy a fun game.
Author:  Phoenix1986 [ Tue Jul 31, 2012 3:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Using dead/older heros
I use a Gondor army with king Elessar, Denethor, Borormir of the White Tower and Faramir. No one complains. Its a game and all for fun
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