There has been much discussion of undercosted units, and creating win at all costs lists. However, Hellfury's battle report has prompted me to start a discussion on making a pair of lists that play well against each other.

I have long been thinking of making a dwarf list to go along with my goblin horde. I shall have to playtest it to see how it works out. The gobbos have the numbers to get flanks so that they can minimize casualties and get the prowler bonus, but the dwarves will have captains to call heroic fights.

approximately 1000 points
Durburz
5 Gobbos
5 Gobbos
5 Gobbos
5 Gobbos
5 Gobbos
5 Gobbos
5 Prowlers
5 Prowlers
5 Prowlers
5 Prowlers
4 Blackshields

Balin
4 Dwarf Warriors with shields
3 Dwarf Warriors with shields
3 Dwarf Warriors with shields
3 Dwarf Warriors with shields
3 Moria Expeditionaries with Expedition Master
3 Iron Guard with Ironhelm

not nearly enough heroes.

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When Isengard marches to war their is no stopping them.

As a person who has a few armies he is working on, my goal is to make the armies play as balanced against each other if at all possible. Even if it means giving one side more points in order to maintain that balance.

I like the idea of plebeian gobbers that win through attrition and the dwarves have a small handful of heroes to to utilize stuff to alleviate the attrition.

But I got to say I have to agree with the above stating there is not enough heroes for either side. 1 or 2 capts for the goblins wouldnt be a bad thing so it doesnt get boring just throwing bodies at a dwarven shield wall.

My guess though is that as it stands, the gobbers will have the upper hand and should win more games than not. This theory-hammer is due to not only the advantage that attrition offers the gobbers, but the maneuvering of twice as many units as well.

I cant give more feedback then that since the amounts of models you have is staggering and quite expensive. I WISH I had the cash to have 13 companies of dwarves with shields. Or 30 companies of plain gobbers for that matter.

I would love to try it though even if it was 'base-hammer' using labeled bases as proxies because the challenge looks quite fun to me.

It does seem that the gobbos have the upper hand, but proper playtesting is required. The goblins are expected to lose combat, and may stay disordered.

To beef up the dwarves I could use Floi instead of Balin, as he has the loremaster rule which can cancel the prowler rule. I could also switch out the unit of 4 dwarves for a unit of 3 Iron Guard.

To power down the gobbos I could burn points on things like captains, drums, and banner bearers.

Right now both lists are very bland. I will look into things to give them more variety.

I usually favor lists with lots of troops. If the dwarves take more characters (they already have three) they could be hopelessly outnumbered. The gobbos could take more heroes, but they will likely just be killed in duels.

Yeah, playtesting is required. You make a good point about gobbers likely remaining disordered if they lose a fight.

I am rather enamored with the idea of Floi. Good call.

Perhaps to add variety a couple trolls and a kings champion could be added? Just a thought.