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WOTR kills SBG?
https://ww.one-ring.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=88&t=15366		 Page 1 of 3
Author:  northfarthing [ Mon Jun 08, 2009 12:58 am ]
Post subject:  WOTR kills SBG?
Huh? Has WOTR replaced SBG?

I was reading on TLA that there will be no more SBG supplements, which means that SBG is dead. Not that we can't keep playing SBG, it's just there won't be any more books.

So has WOTR killed SBG?

Are there going to be WOTR supplements? Add-ons? (Hopefully a reprint with errata/clarifications?)

Does anyone know?
Author:  Dagorlad [ Mon Jun 08, 2009 1:48 am ]
Post subject: 
You're right, there will be no more SBG supplements, but support for the game will continue on the GW website and within White Dwarf. I have been told that there will be supplements for the War of the Ring, but I have no details whatsoever about what format they will be.

I think support for the game has to come from places like this, where we can keep the game alive and produce our own quality gaming material.
Author:  SilverHeimdall [ Mon Jun 08, 2009 2:52 am ]
Post subject: 
I guess in the same way Warmaster and other such smaller games became "Specialist Games" (another section inside the Website) - SBG will be somewhat like that but with WotR still growing - which means SBG will always have figurines for it from WotR and we can most likely come up - if not presented by GWShop/White Dwarf - with Point Costs, stats and rules for newer models and whatnot.

As long as WotR keeps growing anyway (:
Author:  northfarthing [ Mon Jun 08, 2009 3:00 am ]
Post subject: 
Ah, so the long slow slide to GorkaMorka has begun. Sad, sad, sad.
Author:  Elros of Numenor [ Mon Jun 08, 2009 9:53 am ]
Post subject: 
A good old complain from hundreds of hobbyists around the world should fix that problem IMO.
get everybody to demand for more supplements and they should keep 'em coming.
Author:  Lord Hurin [ Mon Jun 08, 2009 10:21 am ]
Post subject: 
Elros of Numenor wrote:
A good old complain from hundreds of hobbyists around the world should fix that problem IMO.
get everybody to demand for more supplements and they should keep 'em coming.


Not enough money in it for ol' GW, I fear. In a game where at most you usually need about 75 models, your house doesn't have to be re-mortgaged. Needing hundreds, on the other hand...

Bottom line, GW seem to care more about $$$ than their customers these days.
Author:  Vrashku [ Mon Jun 08, 2009 12:38 pm ]
Post subject: 
Wow. Thats too bad. I only have played WOTR so far, but have seen SBG played at the shop and heard good things about it. It seemed to have a smooth gameplay. I haven't seen it played since WOTR came out though. Im sure its a money issue for GW to decide this. Even before the release people were playing massive SBG games. 3v3 on 16x4 ft tables bring everything you got style. I think people just like lots of models and large scale battle games. I do enjoy small skirmish games every once in a while. Thats why I play PP games. I might still pick up the SBG rulebook.
Author:  Angrok [ Mon Jun 08, 2009 7:30 pm ]
Post subject: 
I would combine the books for both systems if I were GW. For example, produce a Rohan sourcebook but include the army lists/stats for both systems. Furthermore, when/if the WotR rulebook is redone take out all of the lists/stats and have the rules for both systems in there. Thus, the LotR systems will be similar to WHFB/WH40k in that you have the main rules with individual books for each of the armies. The only difference is you are covering two systems in the process. :roll:

But yeah, the SBG is dead in GW's eyes. I still recall Mat Ward assuring us that WotR would not replace the SBG. :lol: Oh well, GW might not be around in a few years anyway so we should get used to supporting the game on our own.
Author:  BaruKhazad [ Mon Jun 08, 2009 8:04 pm ]
Post subject: 
i had the same thougth, angrok.

why not bring out supplements for both systems? same figures, different stats.

for scenarios: even in some sourcebook you could combine the 2 in a campaign or something. the smaller battles in sbg, and the larger in wotr.

also the terrain and painting guides are the same.

if i was gw i would bring out 10 (final) supplements with the stuff in it. a supplement for each army and stuff(just like warhammer has).
Author:  malvegil [ Thu Jun 18, 2009 2:03 pm ]
Post subject: 
im not sure how true this is but my local gw manager said they were making 2 more sbg books, and the next thingfor wotr is mor2nd agestuff,not badfor measi play arnor :) .

cheers
matt
Author:  BaruKhazad [ Thu Jun 18, 2009 3:31 pm ]
Post subject: 
malvegil wrote:
im not sure how true this is but my local gw manager said they were making 2 more sbg books, and the next thingfor wotr is mor2nd agestuff,not badfor measi play arnor :) .

cheers
matt

if the rumor is true, it is great news! finally the second age stuff and more new toys:P
i guess the last resource book for sbg is a reprint of lome(at last it would be great, and some faq(of gw) had rumored it)
Author:  pangloss666 [ Thu Jun 18, 2009 4:20 pm ]
Post subject: 
I would be a bit hacked off if they did ditch SBG as - aside from anything else - it would really be a smack in the eye if (like me) you have invested in the Legions of Middle Earth book.
Also, as ive said in another thread, Ive read the WoTR rules and im not impressed by them at all (although i understand GWs logic: bigger games need more miniatures = more $ or £). For my money, it would have made more sense to just amend the SBG rules slightly, rather than coming up with an entirely new set of rules (although, again, i appreciate that £30 a shot is better for GW than producing an online addendum or something)
Author:  midloo [ Thu Jun 18, 2009 5:00 pm ]
Post subject: 
The bottom line is that GW is a business... and a business with it's stock price in the toilet. If you're not changing and growing, you're not going to make it. What they've done seems pretty savvy to me:

One new publication has sent demand for LotR models way up. (At least the trade forums are flush with people looking to dump their non-LotR models in favor of LotR ones... we'll have to see what the sales numbers are for GW and their beefed up LotR prices... *ugh*) Would they have generated similar demand from continuing to produce SBG books for a smaller and smaller fanbase?

Dagorlad has it right - you love the game, you've 7 years of material from GW to work with, go out and support it! There's more than enough in the SBG line to keep a dedicated hobbiest busy for many many many years.

I personally am greatly enjoying the new ruleset and appreciate the variety it has brought to the game. My models are more flexible than ever- when I want a skirmish scenario, I have it; when I'm in the mood for the rank and file, I can bring the same case of figures. Fun!
Author:  pangloss666 [ Thu Jun 18, 2009 6:46 pm ]
Post subject: 
i agree completely that its a business-savvy move - a bit like saying that if you buy 3 stompas you can use them in such and such a way in an apocalypse game (or 100 space orks). You could probably set up an army for a 350pt game for about 30 quid, less if if you bought on ebay, whereas WoTR really costs a lot more (i know the rules say that you can play with 500 pt armies, but the focus is really on the big battles)
but having said that, it looks a tad cynical on GWs part to release WOTR and a new Imperial Guard codex etc (both of which require a lot of minis) at the same time as introducing a price increase.
My main problems with the game though are i dont like the trays, its too 'lets throw lots of dice'-based with too many modifiers, and (linked with the trays) i dont like the block-move system.
Author:  mitch_rohan [ Thu Jun 18, 2009 10:28 pm ]
Post subject: 
we make our won supplements that's how we roll. i say everyone chip on a project and do a supplement every now and again and distribute it on the internet so to tla and that to keep it alive and interesting
Author:  pangloss666 [ Thu Jun 18, 2009 10:33 pm ]
Post subject: 
thats a really great idea. The question would be how fundamental would the job be - would we keep the stats and the general rules and then just tinker? or a more fundamental overhaul? Or were you thinking more in terms of race etc supplements?
Author:  Lord Hurin [ Thu Jun 18, 2009 11:50 pm ]
Post subject: 
I would be VERY interested in doing a new group of Supplements which covers all the races. We could do things like giving Arnor and Numenor cavalry, Warriors of Arnor with more than just bows, and other such stuff. Also, due to it all being done at once (more or less), we could avoid things like Stat Creep!
Author:  Elros of Numenor [ Fri Jun 19, 2009 8:43 am ]
Post subject: 
That sounds awesome! 8) I'd love to start creating our own sourcebooks. Yeah!
@Lord Hurin, what's stat creep? I have no idea what that is.
Author:  gaarew [ Fri Jun 19, 2009 9:40 am ]
Post subject: 
Stat Creep - when the newest released model is better than the previously released stuff. Only to be trumped by the next new release.


Guaranteed way to ensure people buy every new army that is released.
Author:  pangloss666 [ Fri Jun 19, 2009 11:07 am ]
Post subject: 
Having thought about this a little more, im thinking that this would involve 3 main tasks (possibly inter-related):

1. any tinkering with the rules. This wouldnt involve any major-rewriting if we used the summaries at the back of the TT and RoTK rulebooks as a guide, i.e. adding a 2.3.1 etc.

2. Supplement on races

3. Possibly linked with (2), a compilation of scenarios

Looking around the forum, it also looks like we wouldnt need to re-invent the wheel with 2 and 3 in some cases as it looks like there are a few scenarios & supplements going around

any thoughts?
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