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Are elves like the special forces of Middle Earth?
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Author:  Warlord777 [ Fri Apr 30, 2010 8:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Are elves like the special forces of Middle Earth?
Is it just me or are they like the special forces of Middle Earth? Like in the books and the movies I am not sure about in the game cause i have just started.
Author:  spuds4ever [ Fri Apr 30, 2010 8:14 pm ]
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It depends what you mean. Quality wise, or all-round wise.
Author:  Warlord777 [ Fri Apr 30, 2010 8:20 pm ]
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All around. i mean come on they make the best weapons and they can use em!!
Author:  Queen Berúthiel [ Fri Apr 30, 2010 8:23 pm ]
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a friend of mine play elves last time i played against him i crushed him (well not perhaps not crush but i beated him)
Author:  Anduril Blade of Kings [ Fri Apr 30, 2010 9:29 pm ]
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Uruk-Hai and Orcs should be in two totally different categories, as Uruks are superior in every way. Categorizing them together is like saying a poodle and a St. Bernard are the same ;)

Elves are not exactly "special forces" in the true sense of the word....however, they are probably the finest fighting men/creatures in Middle-Earth. Pity there's so few, or Sauron could have been wiped off the board a lot sooner....
Author:  Eorltheyoung [ Sat May 01, 2010 2:52 am ]
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I would say humans. Becuase (if you use Rohan) they are fairly cheap have AWESOME riders and some nice infantry, or if you go with Gondor they have very high defence and farly good calvary.



@Anduril, I like your comparison. :)
Author:  Warlord777 [ Sat May 01, 2010 3:40 am ]
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No offense but who voted Hobbits ? :?
Author:  General Elessar [ Sat May 01, 2010 10:46 am ]
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Are we talking about who's best in the game? Or who's best in the real Middle Earth?
Author:  thelordcal [ Mon May 03, 2010 3:43 am ]
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Men by far, they're the ones who take the brunt of most of Sauron's attacks, and are the ones who win the battle's at the end of the War.
Author:  Warlord777 [ Mon May 03, 2010 3:45 am ]
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When there's somethin strange in your neighborhood, who ya gonna call? THE ELVES!!!
Author:  CJ Morgan [ Mon May 03, 2010 5:22 am ]
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In the books and the movies the elves are definatly the greatest warriors by far i think, very skillful fighters.
In regards to the game, id say the elves are a solid force to use(i use them :P) but i wouldnt say they are the best. Thier perks being there archery(obv), thier courage and there fight value and recently thier cavalry...theres more than that but then id probly end up being bias :P
CJ
Author:  gravmania [ Tue May 04, 2010 8:07 am ]
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General Elessar wrote:
Are we talking about who's best in the game? Or who's best in the real Middle Earth?



awesome, the "real middle earth" bit.. :-D


I say humans are strongest because they have numbers over elves and seem to be able to invent new tech.

It does seem odd though that since the "last alliance" no-one has invented gunpowder.. I mean, it been several thousand years..
Author:  BurningMithril [ Tue May 04, 2010 11:00 am ]
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Elves. A couple acquaintances and I were joking the other day about how Glorfindel can just backhand a Balrog into submission. :-D Not to mention that they're the Firstborn.

BTW, I've always found that odd as well. Well, Saruman did, but it took them long enough. :roll: Whenever I write fantasy (and I do) I make sure to have technological advancements and such over time... Otherwise the fantasy is unrealistic.

Did I really just say that?
Author:  General Elessar [ Tue May 04, 2010 12:55 pm ]
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Elves were definetly the most superior race in the First Age, but after that they dwindled. At the time of the Last Alliance, the Numenoreans and Elves would have been equally powerful (in my opinion). Because the Elf population steadily decreased, I'd say that for a short time after the Numenoreans were slightly more powerful. However, due to several issues (Kin-strife, plague, etc.) the Numenoreans power also decreased. During the War of the Ring, I'd say the Elves were again the superior race. In the Fourth Age, men (without a doubt) quickly became the prominent race.
Author:  thelordcal [ Tue May 04, 2010 1:00 pm ]
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I think as a Stand - alone fighter the elves are superior. But their power and overall strength at arms has dimished thus allowing the time of men to rise. During War of the Ring, i still believe that men are the stronger race. Mainly because they siege the Black Gate, an army of Rohirrim and men of Gondor with only one of the other races represented. Men bear the brunt of Sauron's assualt and through their valor and courage they are able to stem the tide. Sure Legolas wrecks face, but the elves as a "super power" are no longer existant.
Author:  aelfwine [ Tue May 04, 2010 1:37 pm ]
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In "real" (heh) Middle-earth, the Noldorin Elves are recovering genocidal demi-gods. If there were sufficient numbers of them, a mere Maia like Sauron would be in a lot of trouble.

There aren't, however.

Sauron's great ability has always been quantity - two hundred Noldor Elves could hold off an army. Sauron will therefore throw three armies at them.

What's more, I suspect that fate has sufficiently doomed the Noldor so that no matter how many foes they slay, no matter how many battles they win, no matter how many evils they challenge, they will still lose. This may be why Glorfindel (a Noldor) did not accompany the Fellowship but Legolas (a Sindar) did.

The lesser Elves, while still impressive, have neither the curse, nor the power. The lesser Elves don't have fate's terrible curse. But they are a diminished people. Every warrior they lose is a terrible loss (beautifully represented in the movies). Their realms are shrinking, their power fading. Once upon a time, Thranduil ruled much of northern Mirkwood. By the end of the Third Age, he commands a small enclave surrounding his Halls.

This suggests small forces fighting guerilla wars, trading space for time, winning little victories, but never reclaiming lost land.

(It does suggest a sort of SAS-ish way of doing things, actually)

As for technology, technology in Middle-earth is in decline. Techniques are lost. Lore is lost. The mighty Numenoreans, whose great ships explored all the coasts of Endor, build Helm's Deep and Isengard, Minas Tirith, Osgiliath and Minas Morgul and more besides. By the end of the Third Age, no one can duplicate such wonders. This has deliberate echoes to the Dark Ages of Europe. The Romans had an urban society of complex trade routes, concrete buildings, luxuries from Asia, running water and central heating. Alfred the Great and Charlemagne ruled rural kingdoms filled with stone and wood buildings and scarce trade. The cities of Rome were huge affairs. The cities of the early medieval period were empty places, maintained only because of their churches. In our world, it took probably 500 years for gunpowder to get from China to Europe and then become an effective weapon. It needed advances in metallurgy, commerce and politics to become viable. Changed everything utterly when it did, but took its time.

Thus its entirely possible that Saruman did not invent "blasting powder" but rather rediscovered it, some ancient holdover of an older age.

Gavin
Author:  Beowulf03809 [ Tue May 04, 2010 2:21 pm ]
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First, as mentioned above, Uruk Hai and Orcs really should be broken out from each other. You could group Goblin and Orc as the major distinction between these two was introduced in the films more than by Tolkien. But the Uruk Hai, or "great orc", of Isengard and Mordor were far and above superior to their lower cousins. Definitely not superior to Elves IMO, but equal or superior to Men in most combat-related respects.

That being said, the Elves were the greatest people in Middle Earth. At their prime when they had numbers none could match them. But as their numbers dwindled and faded they lost much of their power. Individually they are still far superior to any other race on ME, but in the Third Age they can't be gathered in enough strength to make a huge difference. Even in the Last Alliance it took the combined forces of Men and Elves to bring the fight to Sauron and they have diminished even more since then. They have also developed an isolationist attitude that would make Switzerland blush, meaning that as long as no one comes poking around their borders they generally ignore the outside world to a great extent.

In SBG/WotR this isn't as big of an issue obviously as there is not a limited pool of Elf models you can draw from, and your little plastic Elves are very happy to run around outside their borders hacking and shooting foes from one end of Middle Earth to another. So as long as you learn to play with superior forces that are otherwise outnumbered on the table against almost every foe the Elves in the game are still probably the greatest "race" in Middle Earth (at least in SBG, a force of Rivendel High Elves was one of the standard "hard as nails" army many people played and was very competitive). But as argued abouve there are several other races in SBG / WotR that are suprior in one or many ways.
Author:  Thorin & Co. [ Tue May 04, 2010 10:03 pm ]
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I think men are the most dominant force in middle earth. Isuildur, anarion and eldendil forged the kingdoms of arnor, gondor and ithilien, which rohan and a bunch of others split off from.

In the last alliance, men were needed to supplement elves. Isuildur slayed Sauron, not gil-galad. Before the battle of the five armies, it was a man that slayed smaug. Men were all corupted to become the Nazgul, the leading evil beings. Sauron employed men, as well as orcs. Easterlings were the reason for Gondor's downfall prior to war of the ring i believe. Also the first force to attack gondor right before the war of the ring started was a force of haradrim, which attacked osgiliath and destroyed the bridge connecting the east and west sides of the anduin.

Battle of the pelennor fields: Rohan (men), minas tirith (men), rangers of ithilien (men), grey company (men), army of the dead (once men), knights of dol amroth (men), haradrim (men), easterlings (men), nazgul (once men). With the exception of orcs, trolls, hellhawks, and horses, men pretty much fought the bulk of war of the ring. (in the movies, haldir's elves helped defend the deeping wall, but we know that didnt actually happen). Saruman used the wild men of dunland and all of those barbarians to ravage the westfold, and such too.

I'd say a race that doesn't get much credit is the eagles. Gwaihir saves gandalf numerous times. He and his brother, was well as the rest of the eagles, are the scouts of ME. They found out all of the info that gandalf needed. I think the ents and hurons need some acknowledgement for the defeat of Saruman.

How can elves be the strongest force in middle earth, if they are leaving middle earth for the undying lands? Also, glorfindel didnt go with the fellowship beacuse saurons power was too great even for glorfindel, and he wouldn't have helped out that much. Also, he wasnt included in the movies because he would make everyone else look like Devlan Mud.

I think dwarves should get some credit for being the toughest of all the races. None of the 7 dwarves that recieved rings of power turned into wraiths, or experienced any negative effects. The only time they really lost out, was in moria to durins bane, a balrog. Even glorfindel died at the hands of a balrog (gothmog). And after gandalf slayed durin's bane, they went back to moria and had a wonderful time.
Author:  theblackcaptain [ Wed May 05, 2010 12:11 am ]
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Without a doubt the elves, or more specifically: the Noldor. They rape face, especially in the earlier ages when they still had mighty armies and kingdoms. As far as arts, lore, craft, skill and individual prowress goes, elves win. I mean some of the most powerful fought morgoth (lost but still put up a good fight) , balrogs (in all cases both combatants die) and one had a magical duel with saruon (he lost but that he was able to contend with a maiar is quite a feat)

That being said the Numenoreans at the time of Ar-Pharzon were probably the most powerful nation middle earth had ever seen. their armada blotted out the sunset and covered the seas. by the time they set foot on valinor all the elves had fled far far away and the valar crapped themselves and called upon iluvatar to save them. supposedly if they hadn't tolkin figured they could have really done a number on valinor and the elves who lived there.
Author:  General Elessar [ Wed May 05, 2010 3:49 pm ]
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Thorin & Co. wrote:
And after gandalf slayed durin's bane, they went back to moria and had a wonderful time.


Tolkien never said that specifically. It was just presumed by Tolkien fans that the Dwarves would retake Moria.
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