The One Ring :: View topic - spiders & terrain

However, any formation is allowed to move through an unoccupied defensible terrain feature, counting it as difficult terrain is all respects.

Occupying a DEFENSIBLE terrain feature is different than moving through DIFFICULT terrain. The limitations on Cavalry are only for occupying defensible terrain while Pathfinder refers to the movement penalties for moving through difficult terrain..

Also, cavalry are free to assault a formation that is occupying defensible terrain, they just may not occupy it if they drive the enemy out of it.

I still wonder if spiders should be an exception and allow them to occupy buildings/ruins?

Occupying a DEFENSIBLE terrain feature is different than moving through DIFFICULT terrain. The limitations on Cavalry are only for occupying defensible terrain while Pathfinder refers to the movement penalties for moving through difficult terrain..

Formations that are larger than the capacity of a defensible terrain feature can treat the terrain as if it were difficult. So a formation of 6 companies of spiders can move through a capacity 3 building as if it were difficult terrain, and since they have pathfinder they suffer no move penalty for doing so.

I just re-read the second paragraph under 'Our Numbers Are Too Great! [p.55] and saw "note that companies may not use this rule to enter terrain that they would normally be prevented from occupying for reasons other than capacity - cavalry could still not enter buildings for example."

So it looks like the spiders can't do this. Or any other cav for that matter.

under 'Our Numbers Are Too Great! [p.55] and saw "note that companies may not use this rule to enter terrain that they would normally be prevented from occupying for reasons other than capacity - cavalry could still not enter buildings for example."

So it looks like the spiders can't do this. Or any other cav for that matter.

Quote:

I still wonder if spiders should be an exception and allow them to occupy buildings/ruins?

I would say so. It's a bit ridiculous that spiders can't occupy ruins and yet Khandish Chariots (theoretically monsters) can.

Another issue with terrain is flying monsters. On page 34 it says flying monsters may not enter defensible terrain, on page 52-53 it says that all formation types may enter forests and walled fields. I tend to think that p34 is more specific and therefore takes precedence, but I could see someone arguing the other way.

Author:	jscottbowman [ Sat Apr 23, 2011 9:42 pm ]
Post subject:	spiders & terrain
An oddity: Giant spiders - have pathfinder master - co can move freely over any and all terrain, yet they are 'cavalry' so cannot enter/occupy/assault buildings/ruins seems a bit of a paradox any thoughts Cheers Scott

Author:	ForgottenLore [ Sat Apr 23, 2011 9:56 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: spiders & terrain
Occupying a DEFENSIBLE terrain feature is different than moving through DIFFICULT terrain. The limitations on Cavalry are only for occupying defensible terrain while Pathfinder refers to the movement penalties for moving through difficult terrain.. Also, cavalry are free to assault a formation that is occupying defensible terrain, they just may not occupy it if they drive the enemy out of it. Formations that are larger than the capacity of a defensible terrain feature can treat the terrain as if it were difficult. So a formation of 6 companies of spiders can move through a capacity 3 building as if it were difficult terrain, and since they have pathfinder they suffer no move penalty for doing so. A question arises though with smaller formations. the Rulebook says p55 wrote: However, any formation is allowed to move through an unoccupied defensible terrain feature, counting it as difficult terrain is all respects. That piece of text is, however, in the section entitled "Our Numbers Are Too Great!" and it is not entirely clear whether it is meant to apply to any formation, like it says, or only to any formation that is bigger than the capacity of the terrain feature. If it is supposed to apply only to large formations, that severely limits the usefulness of the pathfinder ability in several instances. My particular group plays it that any formation can move through terrain as if it were difficult, regardless of size. Of course, you don't get the Def bonus if you don't actually "occupy"the terrain.

Author:	jscottbowman [ Sat Apr 23, 2011 10:55 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: spiders & terrain
ForgottenLore wrote: Occupying a DEFENSIBLE terrain feature is different than moving through DIFFICULT terrain. The limitations on Cavalry are only for occupying defensible terrain while Pathfinder refers to the movement penalties for moving through difficult terrain.. Also, cavalry are free to assault a formation that is occupying defensible terrain, they just may not occupy it if they drive the enemy out of it. That is interesting, and I guess makes sense, and would probably put cavalry off charging terrain, they lose their prime charge bonus. I still wonder if spiders should be an exception and allow them to occupy buildings/ruins?

Author:	Gildor Inglorion [ Sat Apr 23, 2011 11:25 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: spiders & terrain
Quote: I still wonder if spiders should be an exception and allow them to occupy buildings/ruins? I would say so. It's a bit ridiculous that spiders can't occupy ruins and yet Khandish Chariots (theoretically monsters) can.

Author:	lorelorn [ Sat Apr 23, 2011 11:50 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: spiders & terrain
ForgottenLore wrote: Occupying a DEFENSIBLE terrain feature is different than moving through DIFFICULT terrain. The limitations on Cavalry are only for occupying defensible terrain while Pathfinder refers to the movement penalties for moving through difficult terrain.. Formations that are larger than the capacity of a defensible terrain feature can treat the terrain as if it were difficult. So a formation of 6 companies of spiders can move through a capacity 3 building as if it were difficult terrain, and since they have pathfinder they suffer no move penalty for doing so. I've been playing like this too, however I just re-read the second paragraph under 'Our Numbers Are Too Great! [p.55] and saw "note that companies may not use this rule to enter terrain that they would normally be prevented from occupying for reasons other than capacity - cavalry could still not enter buildings for example." So it looks like the spiders can't do this. Or any other cav for that matter.

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Author:	ForgottenLore [ Sun Apr 24, 2011 12:33 am ]
Post subject:	Re: spiders & terrain
lorelorn wrote: I just re-read the second paragraph under 'Our Numbers Are Too Great! [p.55] and saw "note that companies may not use this rule to enter terrain that they would normally be prevented from occupying for reasons other than capacity - cavalry could still not enter buildings for example." So it looks like the spiders can't do this. Or any other cav for that matter. Hmm, missed that part. Another issue with terrain is flying monsters. On page 34 it says flying monsters may not enter defensible terrain, on page 52-53 it says that all formation types may enter forests and walled fields. I tend to think that p34 is more specific and therefore takes precedence, but I could see someone arguing the other way.

Author:	jscottbowman [ Sun Apr 24, 2011 12:36 am ]
Post subject:	Re: spiders & terrain
lorelorn wrote: under 'Our Numbers Are Too Great! [p.55] and saw "note that companies may not use this rule to enter terrain that they would normally be prevented from occupying for reasons other than capacity - cavalry could still not enter buildings for example." So it looks like the spiders can't do this. Or any other cav for that matter. Yeah thats how we've played it, but it just felt odd since spiders have pathfinder-master

Author:	jscottbowman [ Sun Apr 24, 2011 12:41 am ]
Post subject:	Re: spiders & terrain
ForgottenLore wrote: Another issue with terrain is flying monsters. On page 34 it says flying monsters may not enter defensible terrain, on page 52-53 it says that all formation types may enter forests and walled fields. I tend to think that p34 is more specific and therefore takes precedence, but I could see someone arguing the other way. I agree p34 seems to take precedence yet, again I feel some house rule latitude is required - I cant see flyers entering woodland (even bats we chatted through ourselves and decided they would disperse), but don't see why a walled field would cause them any problems? They could surely enter it, but I would say not take any defensive bonus from 'occupying' it

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