Question for you guys! Aragon and gimli call epic rage epic rampage against my Goblins. but also call heroic fight. They wipe out my goblins and then successfully charge the next group of goblins, does the epic Rage Epic rampage contine onto the next Formation?

Epic Rampage states "For the remainder of that turn , each time Gimli's company scores a hit..."

Epic Rage states "... his company has +4 Strength until the end of the phase."

So yes the Epic Rampage and Epic Rage still continue when they charge the second formation, as it is in the same turn/phase still.

That'll suck for the Goblins.. but it's valid..

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Wow that's total power gaming. Who finds that sort of stuff to be fun and fair?

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My Lotr backlog: 305/952[][][][][][][][][][]32% completed
Painting Lineup: Mumakil x2, Rohan Heroes x8, Haradrim, SKoDA

It's not, but it's no less "fun and fair" than Gothmog/Nazgul spam, Counselor cheese and a host of other power-game enabled loop holes in the rules.

If you have players that recognize these things and choose NOT to use them because of the abusive impact they have on the game then you have a lucky group of players (and will probably be criticized and ridiculed by many others because of it). If your local players seek out and repeatedly use these things then try SBG.

I am lucky that I belong to the first, though most of our players never play WotR any more unless I'm the one asking for a game. They have all become pretty disillusioned with the issues in the rules and moved on to FoW, ancient historicals, Warmaster or returning to 40k.

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Wait ye the finish! The fight is not yours.
Beowulf

http://TacticsInMiniature.com

Im not going to say thats sad but, its sad

I love wotr and I will be honest more so than SBG, if only a new version came out making the game a little less powerfull with some cobos.

Any way, the inital topic question is very good, i had never thought of that, i think i might ask my local gw and see their opinion

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I have my issues with GW but in the end, secretly, I am a GW fanatic.

Well this topic reminded me of one of the reasons why I prefer SBG over WotR. And WHFB has become that way too with overpowering wizards and warmachines mostly dictating the game. It's like you just assemble up these hundreds of models just to get mowed down quickly in these games, like there's no chance to set up battlefield tactics for the infantry troops.

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My Lotr backlog: 305/952[][][][][][][][][][]32% completed
Painting Lineup: Mumakil x2, Rohan Heroes x8, Haradrim, SKoDA

While I too prefer SBG to WotR, I find WotR is a nice change of pace from time to time. Like Beowulf, I'm fortunate enough to have a group of players that doesn't abuse loopholes and over-stacked combinations, but it's hard when the game is so unbalanced. Hence why for our larger battles, the majority of us transfered over to Warhammer which is far more balanced then you may think. I play an all-cavalry army of Bretonnian Knights, with no warmachines and 1-2 really weak mages, which (according to everything I've heard from 'experts') should be getting tabled every game. I've won every battle they've entered, though often with heavy casualties. Why is that? Because the sole purpose of my mages is negating enemy magic and the Blessing of the Lady (with help from natural mobility) means warmachines barely harm my troops. I don't think you've seen a lot of the new Warhammer scenarios being played as many of them make it more difficult for the armies you describe (such as the Meeting Engagement scenario) and others make it nigh impossible for mine (Watchtower scenario, damn victory condition of being in the blasted tower).

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- My miniature gaming blog, sorry for lack of LOTR content right now.

Jazlotus, the combination is perfectly legal and was a useful bargaining chip for me when I was explaining to some Evil players how they needed to exercise a little restraint themselves with loopholes.

Overall though, balance-wise the game is very good aside from a few things. I've seen people single out a few issues with SBG and I've seen the odd thing ruled out of WHFB comps too so glass-houses and all that. However, while I haven't played SBG (though I've often seen all those individual figs ranked up and wondered why not have movement trays...and anyway SBG is no comparison to a WOTR scale game) I have played WHFB (the current one) and my biggest concern with it is not balance (which seems fine), it is that it struggles to be considered a fully developed wargame. Too pre-programmed in terms of combos and stats and not enough happening on the tabletop. Trying some of the Ancients/Historicals games out there is not a bad suggestion though. I've played FOW for years and Impetvs is a great Ancients game. Scott Bowman swears by Hail Caesar too and both Impetvs and Hail Caesar have LOTR mods. Or, if you are a perfectionist, you could houserule but I think a little basic self-respect in terms of backing yourself to succeed without having to exploit something goes a long way.

To be honest, many of the issues I see people having with things in WOTR are due to lack of rules knowledge and actual sustained experience with the game amongst a group with some diversity in it. Sure some units don't work and you have to work very hard vs certain lists (Morranans + Wraiths, I'm looking at you. I wont even bother to play against a stacked Gorgoroth horde) but outcomes are largely down to how well you play the units on the table-top. Instead most of the online discussion I see is about pre-programmed combos and heroes, which I take to be a bit of a Warhammer mentality holding back people from getting how WOTR works.

YMMV

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Absolutely with you here Xelee.

Yes I agree too, plus to be honest a good game player can see something like that coming. Don't leave another formation directly behind the first one with Aragon and Gimli bearing down on it.