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Dwarf Holds
https://ww.one-ring.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=88&t=22505		 Page 1 of 3
Author:  NotLegolasJustTipsy [ Sun Feb 19, 2012 3:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Dwarf Holds
Iv previously painted and sold an Elvern army, and at present have a MM and Fallen Realms army. But I fancy collecting and painting a new army and was thinking of collecting a dwarf army. Has anyone else played this Army in WOTR? What's it like? When Iv browsed the site and looked at battle reports from different ones it seems like the dwarves always lose lol.

So just wanted some game info on this Army from ones that have either played this army list or played against this army list, what's its strengths and weaknesses? :puppy:
Author:  Leonardis [ Sun Feb 19, 2012 7:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Dwarf Holds
I have played dwarves at GWS and won, I very much have tactics of hold and let the enemy come to you, then you have to use might and special abilities very well.
Author:  GothmogtheWerewolf [ Sun Feb 19, 2012 7:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Dwarf Holds
I was hoping someone who plays dwarves would answer you, (EDIT: I have been pipped at the post but will keep my post). I played against it, as I have aforementioned, many were eaten by Gulavhar, and their Ballistas were destroyed by Buhrdur, yet my main defence of Angmar Orcs, Morannon Orcs and Gundabad Blackshields crubled against them. Khazad Guards are Dwarves' Crown Jewel, especually with Dain or Gimli. Dwarves with shields are sturdy enough to be fielded in formations of three companies. Dwarf Ballistas are second only to Mordor Siege Bows in effieciency. Vault Wardens are poor, Kings Champions are very decent.
Author:  Leonardis [ Sun Feb 19, 2012 7:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Dwarf Holds
Sorry I only did a quick reply.

I gave up using dwarves as I always lend out my figures for others to play, and inverably they wanted to be dwarves... It was a little annoying as they were my favourite.

I used to field 2 ballistas, with some rangers next to them, this stopped any flying monster from charging my ballista, as I had gulavhar try to take out my ballistas on more than one occasion only to be killed with the combination of the shooting attacks.
I like to have dwarves with shields as they are hard to crack, these flank khazad guards with gimli, who if played well is devistating against lesser foe.
The dwarves are slow, but my tactics with them were never to run across the field and charge into battle, that is what cavalry are for... Dwarves are tough and need to be moved all together to protect their flanks.

I agree, the vault wardens, unless you have tonnes 3+ comps arent much good, the kings champion is good as are the rangers for better bows than dwarf standard bows!

Hope this helps
Author:  ScarpeIron [ Sun Feb 19, 2012 8:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Dwarf Holds
They are tough, but slow. They have strong attacks, but are very weak in terms of magic..defending against and using. I have always allied in faster troop types and at least a few mages.

Floi is a must for me. As well as hornblowers and banners. I've even taken the stone throwers, they seem to add a flare to the games their in. Some people swear by the Iron Guards, but for me its the Khazad Guard with Gimli and a Shieldbearer. There are some rare units that don't really make difference, except Murin/Drar formations. The Kings Guard is good. Also, if agreed upon by your playmates, you can use the Battlehost supplement. Fielding some of those Host can be different, as well as the new Fortunes take are listed in the book. The dwarven warriors make for a great shieldwall that grinds opponents down, just have to remember to protect the flanks. You won't win foot races, dwarves are made for attrition and magic will make you pull your hair out. Get crafty and allie in mages or Army of the Dead. oh, and always remember your hero's special abilities...like being able to throw Gimli into formations.

As for always losing? Not the case for me. I'd say I'm 60/40, with wins being 60. Its the only game I'm able to roll right :-D SBG, Mord, Necro, Warmaster, Man O'War...I can't roll right to save my life :? its crazy.

- :puppy:

ed.: LOL Leon covered much before I could post. LoL
Author:  NotLegolasJustTipsy [ Sun Feb 19, 2012 9:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Dwarf Holds
Thanx everyone, what makes the Vault Wardens poor? They look really good with D10 and indomitable! Is it just ruin casters that spoil there fun? I will buy a kings champion even if it's just as a display piece because the piece looks amazing, what's it like in battle? Is it let down with not having epic strike? You would think with it having epic duel they would have at least given him epic strike eh?

I never really use any artillery, I think they are quite expensive as we only play 1000-1200 point games, so are the Ballistas worth it it that point size game? Obviously the Khazad guards look good with S5 plus 2/H weapons, but why do some swear by the Iron Guards? Am I missing something there? They don't look that brill.

Why are they poor against magic? Other than the obvious ruin caster with Shatter shields, but that would be bad to any D5/7 Army, as with magic casters themselves Gondor, Rohan and Dwarfs all dont have spell casters but that's why you ally in if you need them.
Author:  Draugluin [ Mon Feb 20, 2012 1:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Dwarf Holds
The King's Champion already has 8F, he really doesn't need Epic Strike that much. He's also great in SBG, if you ever get into that.
Author:  ScarpeIron [ Mon Feb 20, 2012 5:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Dwarf Holds
Vault Wardens are We Stand Alone (if I'm remember that correctly), they can't be joined by hero's. They are GREAT in games where they need to hold a objective, they are next to impossible to move.

The artillery is good and bad. With the right rolls you can tear up elite units, smash-mouth monsters, and generally cause havoc by just them being on the field. Though the bad side is that you need to dedicate units to defend them, and it comes down to how well the dice roll for you. Its a fickle little thing.

The Iron Guards, some like them cause of their ability to throw weapons. I at first used them because I had so many of them for SBG, after a few games I've dropped them in favour of regular troopers.

Poor against magic in the sense that they don't have profiles that use magic (mages). And yes, the best thing to do is ally in casters. As well as cavalry, even sometimes a special unit of archers.

-Scar
Author:  NotLegolasJustTipsy [ Mon Feb 20, 2012 11:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Dwarf Holds
ScarpeIron wrote:
Vault Wardens are We Stand Alone

The artillery is good and bad. With the right rolls you can tear up elite units, smash-mouth monsters, and generally cause havoc by just them being on the field. Though the bad side is that you need to dedicate units to defend them, and it comes down to how well the dice roll for you. Its a fickle little thing.

The Iron Guards, some like them cause of their ability to throw weapons. I at first used them because I had so many of them for SBG, after a few games I've dropped them in favour of regular troopers.

Poor against magic in the sense that they don't have profiles that use magic (mages). And yes, the best thing to do is ally in casters. As well as cavalry, even sometimes a special unit of archers.

-Scar


So would you only really use Vault wardens in games with objectives? Shame that cos they look really nice pieces

Iron Guards! - is the ability to throw weapons better then having +1 to hit with the Khazad Guards?
What do you mean that they are poor against magic in the sense that they don't have profiles that use magic? What does that mean?
Author:  ScarpeIron [ Mon Feb 20, 2012 2:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Dwarf Holds
I'd use VW to hold a flank, objective, or the center of my line. They are really a tough nut to break. The only problem with them is that they can not be joined by your hero's. So they are a void in that regard. So it comes down to if I have enough companies that I can harbour my hero in, have him jump around safely.

Magic, cause you have to ally in Casters. Which is a pain in the butt, and annoying when going for theme. They have the same "defense" against magic as everyone else. Sorry, if I confused you on that.

- :puppy:
Author:  NotLegolasJustTipsy [ Mon Feb 20, 2012 5:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Dwarf Holds
What about the iron guards? Is having throwing weapons better then the Khazad Guards plus 1 to hit?
Author:  NotLegolasJustTipsy [ Mon Feb 20, 2012 5:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Dwarf Holds
Also can someone explain to me which special rules you can and can use? Let me give an example, il use Dain Ironfoot.
His special rules are counsellor, Goblinbane, inspiring leader, Orcbane, Terror and Trollbane. Now I have been told that the only ones I can use are Counsellor, inspiring leader and Terror. Is that correct? Do the banes not pass on to him and his company?
Author:  WayUnderTheMountain [ Mon Feb 20, 2012 6:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Dwarf Holds
The banes do not pass on to the company. GW added it for fluff but I think it got FAQ'd a long time ago.
Author:  NotLegolasJustTipsy [ Tue Feb 21, 2012 5:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Dwarf Holds
Anybody else got any info in the Dwarves? Just trying to get this thread going again, what pieces are a must? I love the look of the Iron Guards, but would you always take Khazad guards instead? Also what's the best way to utilise and play the kings champion?
Also anybody got any army lists for the dwarves for say 1000 point games and 1200 point games?

Thanx as always :rofl:
Author:  GothmogtheWerewolf [ Tue Feb 21, 2012 5:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Dwarf Holds
Iron Guard are an unthinkable choice, Khazad Guard are better, to be useable Iron Guards would need to cost less than Khazads, (unless you need 'em for a battlehost).

Use Kings Champions in the way that most hero monsters should be used. If you know what I mean?
Author:  NotLegolasJustTipsy [ Tue Feb 21, 2012 5:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Dwarf Holds
Not sure what you mean because the only other monster I really use is a Dragon which obviously would be different. It's such a shame about the Iron Guards because I love the look of them, doesn't the throwing weapons make up for it then?
Author:  Jazlotus [ Tue Feb 21, 2012 5:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Dwarf Holds
Hi NLJT I'm just starting to collect some dwarves again, because I want to paint up a full army because I'm my humble opinion I think the Dwarves look the nicest pieces to paint! I agree with the others that Khazad are a must but I too love the look of the Iron Guards but never played them in a battle so not sure how well they would do.
While I'm here does anyone know where I can find a good step by step article on painting Dwarves? Thanx
Author:  GothmogtheWerewolf [ Tue Feb 21, 2012 5:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Dwarf Holds
Nah, you only get 4 attacks per company throwing, and the Khazads higher strength and +1 to hit with the option to Epic Rampage them makes them much better.

A Dragon isn't a normal hero monster, I mean Troll Chieftains/Captains, Khandish Kings, Buhrdur, Treebeard, cheaper Ent heroes etc.

You keep them at the back, AtDing to where needed, charge in flanks in combo with a decent formation of infantry eg Khazads, Dwarf Warriors, Morannons, Uruks, WoMT.
Author:  NotLegolasJustTipsy [ Tue Feb 21, 2012 8:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Dwarf Holds
I'm upset now :sad: because the Iron Guard look brill, and there useless :sad:
Author:  GothmogtheWerewolf [ Tue Feb 21, 2012 8:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Dwarf Holds
They are decent in SBG which is the game they were made for, just not in WotR.
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