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 Post subject: Dwarf Tactics
PostPosted: Sat May 01, 2010 12:11 pm 
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Based upon weekly play with 1K to 1.5K dwarf army over the last few months.

Basic dwarf troops are tough and hard to beat, they dont need special gimmicks to beat the majority of forces. Quite why they are regularly rated one of the worse armies is beyond me. The basic troop is the best in the game and the epic heroes are super tough.

Common Troops

The basic dwarf warrior formation with shield will outclass the majority of opposition infantry, even if they have a hero. I like to use 3 or 4 companies depending upon the size of game. The option of two handed weapons adds more offensive power at the cost of defense, I like a formation of each to give me options. These guys rock, captains are a waste of points imo as they have such good base stats anyway, better to add an epic hero if you want to hero it up. A shieldbearer can be useful for at the double however.

Dwarf rangers

I prefer to use rangers with bows as a fixed line to take advantage of their increased ballistic skill and range. I deploy them in formations of two companies near the centre, this forces the opposition to come forward and engage me in order to stop the shooting threat.

Dwarf warriors with bows

Dwarf warriors with bows I use to advance and seize terrain. With their higher defense + terrain bonus they are really tough to remove. I deploy them in formations of two companies. Once in place I focus their efforts on;
1.anything which could outflank my forces (trolls, wargs, prowlers)
2.shooting to the rear of opposition formation (they loose the defense bonus from shields)
I deploy them on the far ends of my formations with the main role of protecting my flanks.

Rare Troops

Khazad guard. Kick ass. With their strength, defense and two handed weapons they carve up. Combine with an epic rampage and nothing can withstand them. I use formations of 3-4 companies. Whatever you do, dont let them be flank or rear attacked.

Iron guard. The Khazad +1 strength combined with two handed weapons is far better than + 1 fight. Strength trumps fight every time. I just dont use them.

Vault wardens. I dont use them. If I did I would secure a flank.

Dwarf Ballista. The main impact is psychological, but they also harm nasties like balrogs.I like to deply two seperate formations of 1 ballista to spread the attention of the opponent.

Erid Luin Rangers. I cant justify the cost. If you want to ambush use Drar.

Kings champion. Very expensive, there are better uses those points can be put to imo. If you have a specific tactic then go ahead, but generally there are better ways to spend those points.

Legendary Formations

Murin. Why not just have Balin and warriors with shields? – he does the same and more. Murin does nothing for me, this is based however upon the interpretation that the base costs dont include the 1st company. I think this is wrong, but it is not the orthodoxy, so until that changes – spend elsewhere.

Drar. In another army they arent worth the points, but due to Dwarf low movement there are situations where a unit attacking from the rear can make a real difference. Remember, they do more damage by charging to the rear than shooting to the rear.

Durin's guard. Not worth the points, with Khazad you want an epic rampage.

Epic Heroes

General tactic. I wouldnt use heroic duel if your opponent has epic strike. All your epic heroes have epic strike in their pocket just in case. There is an exception to this noted later. The might is better reserved for epic rampage – this will do a lot more damage.

Floi. In large games he could be useful – for example ringwraiths draining your might, not generally used by me however.

Balin. For 100 points, with epic strike and his resistance he will win you a lot of duels.
We play epic strike is used in duels, depite a vocal minority having a different view I feel it is one of the more balanced mechanics in the game.

Dain. Epic rampage + resistance 4 rocks. Do it. Almost unkillable in duels or against black dart.

Gimli. Epic rampage. Also Baruk Khazad is good, used it to kill trolls before.

Allies

From a fluff perspective I tend to stick to Legolas. Which is handy as he is the balrog killer. Just keep him out of combat, no epic strike and only resistance 2, if the opponent has epic strike. He is expensive so I only use him when I know I will have to kill monsters.

Also dwarfs have no magic, which isnt that big a deal due to their high courage and defense. But if you miss some then Thranduil is worth a pop and still somewhat fluffy, also he has epic shot which is a bit good. Though wilderness magic is pretty useless imo.

Tactics

I have mentioned a lot in the above. Generally speaking dwarf infantry will win most combats from the front, so get it into combat. Use shooting to force the enemy to engage. Protect your flanks at all costs. Dont worry too much about magic, you have high courage and resilient troops.

However against specific threats I have some tactics.

Balrog or other big nasties – you have two options.
Epic rampage + Khazad, though can be hard to setup the combat.
Legolas (crippling + epic shot) + dwarf shooting (bolt throwers + archery). I have killed the balrog on the first turn in the shooting phase with Legolas alone (thought with lots of good rolls).

Khamul (or another equally annoying ringwraith).
You need to duel. Unfortunately he has black dart to burn your might and pall of night to stop you charging. The sooner you can get into a duel the better. He may survive the first duel (he call call epic strike) but with only 1 might, you will get him the second time. This is where Floi (or another epic hero who can join the formation) comes in handy to recharge might.

Fortunes

Mithril coat – want to make Gimli nigh invulnerable?

Counterspell – want to get that change on Khamul for a duel?

Blessing of Galadriel – Dain/Gimli turn even more nasty.

Inner Glory – Dain/Gimli stuff a big baddy (Balrog?). Though he can still call epic strike.

Desperate heroics – make Khamul cry.
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PostPosted: Mon May 03, 2010 5:19 am 
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Mind giving example lists?
I'm wondering also if you take banners and horn blowers at all?

Also I find Murin's Guard to be quite cheap even at 110 + 40 base cost for the first company - you basically get Murin for 75 pts as a banner is normally 35 points. He's decent for that cost and I could place Balin elsewhere.
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PostPosted: Mon May 03, 2010 9:11 am 
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Hornblowers arent worth the points, better to spend the extra 10 points for a shieldbearer and gain at the double which is much better.

Murin v Balin - for an extra 25 points you get a epic character (so can move where needed), who can win most duels (R3 and epic strike), inspiring leader + Terror. Much more effective imo than Murin and a banner, he is one of the most cost effective characters in the game.

Banner bearers. My approach is generally get as may troops on the table first, then augment with characters, finally the extras can be deployed if you have the points spare. They are definitely good - but I would pick unit size and characters first. If you use them put them in your game winning units (Khazad + Dain for example). They are good, but a luxury not a necessity.
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PostPosted: Mon May 03, 2010 7:39 pm 
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Iron guard have throwing weapons as well. This is something that shouldn't be overlooked. Nor should the fact that S5 and two-handed weapons is nice. However Khazad guard effectively have opponents hitting them at F3 and they only get to hit at F4.

Many people say Fight trumps strength however that is not often the case. Especially when your unit is already S4 or above.

I'm sorry, but given the versatility of the Iron Guard I'm not sure Khazad Guard are always the correct choice. Being able to move forward 5" and then unleash a hail of S4 throwing attacks at your opponent before he tries to charge you is useful.

Vault wardens make poor flank gaurdians, they are not fast enough to hold up flanking units. Instead they should be sent forward direct at the most scary and offending unit possible to effectively neutralise them. OR you can use them to seize and objective or choke point. Once they have one they are not moving anywhere.


Of course 9 times out of 10 if I was going to take Iron guard I would probably take Iron guard ancients. With orc bane and causing terror in orcs they tend to make a mess of large units of orcs that evil players have a habbit of fielding.


The King's champion can cause real problems for an opponents spellcaster. Given that he can call and Epic Challenge and an Epic duel in a single turn and that he has a fight of 8 the king's champion can allow you to lock down flanking units, spell casters and other problems.

This is an ability that is not something a dwarf player should overlook.

Banners and Hornblowers can be very useful. At the double will not always work, you don't always want to use it (in the case of archers). Banners can make the difference in a close fight and there will be several of them with an elite force. Fielding an army with no banners and hornblowers is, in my opinion, asking for trouble.
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PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2010 7:23 am 
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I am of the opinion that Khazad Guard trump Iron Guards almost every time. The ability to throw 4 weapons per company at the opponent 6" away is hardly ever useful.

If I really want that ability, I can get it cheaper with dwarf ranger with two handed weapons and throwing weapons. A much better alternative and only uses a common slot.

Two handed weapons are made of win. Pure and simple.
I will take eight F3 S5 close combat attacks that grants me a +1 to hit over four str4 shooting attack @ 6" then 8 F5 S4 close combat attacks anyday.

Big stuff goes down versus two handed weapons especially those wielded by dwarves.

I do agree that King's Champions have their place, but are not often always viable unless @ 1500 points or above. But if you are looking for a good monster that benefits dwarves quite well and your allies point allocation has been used up, king's champions are the way to go.

Hornblowers are pretty much a big waste of points. The only time I take them is if I am using Durin's Guard and am forced to. I rely on at the double to get me where I need to go. I would rather spend 10 more points and get a shield bearer in the unit rather than a hornblower 100% of the time.

Banners however are nearly as compulsory as captains are for close combat units. The only units I have that do not use banners are ranged weaponry formations. Bu then again, I dont give ranged weaponry formations any upgrades.
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PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2010 11:29 am 
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Someone called for an example list, so heres mine:

EPIC HEROES
Dain Ironfoot, King Under the Mountain [200]
Gimli, Son of Gloin [175]
Floi Stonehand, Loremaster of Moria [90]
Balin, Lord of Moria [100]

ALLIES
Gandalf the Grey [200]

COMMON
Gimli’s Dwarf Warrior Kinband
-2 Handed weapons
-4 Companies
-Hornblower [175]

Balin’s Dwarf Warrior Kinband
-Shields
-4 Companies
-Hornblower [175]

Dwarf Archer Kinband
-2 Companies
-Hornblower
-Shieldbearer [110]

Dwarf Archer Kinband
-2 Companies
-Hornblower
-Shieldbearer [110]

RARE
Dain Ironfoots’ Khazad Gaurd Kinband
-2 Companies
-Hornblower [115]

Floi Stonehand’s Dwarf Ballista Regiment
-3 Companies [180]

King’s Champion [175]
King’s Champion [175]

FATES
Counterspell [25]

Total: 2005

-------------

@Hellfury, the only other non-flying monsters are ents, which isn't fluffy. Flying monsters are more expensive than the King's champions, so with regards to monsters, champions are probably the way to go? Unless you're trying to be real competitive, in which case you could take the cheaper ents, which are a common slot.

Ive heard mixed opinions about the hornblowers. :/
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PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2010 11:30 am 
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Thanks for writing up the tactica.

I would not be so quick to dismiss the King's Champion. Yes he is vulnerable to shooting, but so are other monsters. He can really put the beat down on a unit, especially if he is fighting to the flank or rear. (remember that only one company from a formation can attack a monster) He is also a character killer. He can move at the double, call heroic fights and duels. I think you will find that they are more effective if you take more than one of them.

I agree that in many instances Khazad Guard trump Iron Guard because of the two handed weapons. However, when fighting defense 4 opponents the Iron Guard are actually better. Never underestimate thrown weapons.

Given that dwarf troops are so tough they are likely to win combat. Thus, it is natural to pair them with heroes who can call a heroic fight.

The reason that the dwarves are not a top tier army is their lack of ability to deal with spellcasters. They can effectively be kept out of combat by ringwraiths and then shot to deal. Further, their shooting is not as strong as other armies. Dwarf archers and rangers are much more expensive than regular archers. The dwarf ballista is not as good as the avenger bolt thrower.
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PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2010 5:13 pm 
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I play Dwarves in SBG, but I don't have enough for WotR. Reading all of this was very interesting, and I'm tempted to expand my Dwarf army...

From looking at the rules, I think Great Eagles might be a good choice. They're very mobile (something Dwarves lack), quite powerful, and their appearence in the Hobbit justifies using them.

Strange, Iron Guard aren't as good as Khazad Guard. In SBG Iron Guard are amazing.

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PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2010 7:36 pm 
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Nice write up. In WotR I've only faced Dwarves as an opponent but from those games an my other experience I would agree with most of what you have posted.

Dwarves are very frustrating to play against due to the high Defense. That's a powerful weapon of its own. Opponents get frustrated when you're wearing them down through attrition of your high Def vs. their average Def.

Of all the "monster" Heroes I have played or played against so far I would say that the Champion is probably the most effective. I'd put him on par with a Troll Chief. Regular Trolls, Khazad Chief, and even Glorfindel have each gone down on their first turn of real combat in our games, but the Champion, well played, stayed alive and causing damage. It may have been as much of the game and tactics than the model's Profile, but it did get a good rep locally from those games.

In addition to the monster-killing use of Legolas that you mentioned, his ability to add Swift Strike to a Dwarf Formation is pretty great. Put him in a Formation full of 2H weapon swingers to really increase the chance of causing a lot of carnage...then smile a little as the enemy has to absorb those losses before getting a chance to attack you back.

I would agree that Eagles are a better ally option than Ents if looking for something like that, if only because of the BoFA tie in. Likewise, Gandalf is probably the most appropriate choice for a Wizard if looking. In larger games a Wizard can really help out and some of Gandalf's spells and special rules can go a long way to toughening your Dwarves up even more.

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PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2010 8:39 pm 
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Calvalry/Monsters:
Dwarves don't have any calvalry, but its semi-fluffy to ally eorl the young, sons or eorl, and outrider eored (the horn of rohan is dwarf made, and was brought from the north to rohan by eorl). Legolas/Radagast too. I think eagles look cool in a dwarf army, and I suppose its fluffy to ally rivendell and mirkwood forces, since rivendell is near Moria, and mirkwood participated in the battle of the five armies. I'm not sure about glorfindel though.

Shooting:
Dwarves can ally cheap hobbit archers, which i suppose is sorta fluffy as well. Bilbo traveled with Thorin and company, and theyre both short people with horrible movement that live in the north and enjoy eating, smoking, and drinking. As for dwarf archers, compared to Minas Tirith archers, they are +10 pts, -1M, +1F, +1Shoot/+1D (rangers/normal archers), +1str, and +1C. What other archers are D6, and are good in combat? With regards to the ballista, i considerate a cross between the trebuchet and the avenger bolt thrower. The bolt thrower has more shots, but it has poor range and less str, so its not as good against monsters, right?


Another thing i find cool is all of the dwarf characters were alive at the same time, for a short period of time. Dain fought in the battle of the five armies, with Thorin and company (im gonna name my champions Fili and Kili), and gimili was to young to join (only being 60 something). Then Balin is gimli's cousin, and Floi was with balin in the attempt to re-claim moria.
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PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2010 12:55 am 
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Thorin & Co. wrote:
@Hellfury, the only other non-flying monsters are ents, which isn't fluffy. Flying monsters are more expensive than the King's champions, so with regards to monsters, champions are probably the way to go? Unless you're trying to be real competitive, in which case you could take the cheaper ents, which are a common slot.

Ive heard mixed opinions about the hornblowers. :/


Personally, I think King's champions are pretty underrated even though they are pricey. Because they arent an obvious choice for the points, it may mean that they are costed quite appropriately.

I have taken them in 1000 point games to good effect, but are not ultra competitive against some of the better lists out there (the reasons are too myriad to detail here).

Common Formations:
1 x 3 company Dwarf Warrior Kinband formation (Two-handed weapons, Captain, Banner) 205 pts
1 x 3 company Dwarf Warrior Kinband formation (Shields, Captain, Banner) 205 pts
1 x 3 company Dwarf Ranger Kinband formation (Two-handed weapons, Captain) 170 pts

Rare Formations:
2 x 1 company Dwarf Ballista formations 120 pts
1 King’s Champion formation 175 pts

Epic Hero:
Balin, Lord of Moria (Leader) 100 pts

Fortune:
Counterspell 25 pts

1000 points
80 models
(6 formations - 9 infantry trays - 2 artillery trays - 1 Monster base)
11 might
0% Allies

The ballistae are for use against either fast or tough things. Monsters and cav.

The formations with two handed weapons are for meatier infantry and monsters while the shild formation is for stuff that can hurt you easily.

The kings champion is for a quick little guided missile to help soften a unit up a bit before the rest of the formations get to go. That and make sure terror has little effect on the formations due to increased courage and perhaps a little bit of epic hero molestation for pesky spellcasters perhaps.

Balin does not need any introduction. He is made of awesome for his points.

Ents are cheaper, but not very thematic.

Eagles are great. Either common or legendary. They add a very good element that is missing from the dwarf list and that is quick maneuverability. Positioned correctly they can swing the battle in your favor by being able to fly over enemies and offer rear attacks to their formations. Even the threat is enough to cause considerable disruption and force them to make a few mistakes to take advantage of.

The reason why I dislike hornblowers so much is due to the very little benefit gained from their use for dwarves. other armies benefit from their use far more and their use in those armies can make sense sometimes. Dwarves are slow. Plain and simple. Not enough reason to grant them movement to match all other infantry for those extra 15 points on an already quite expensive unit. Deal with their drawbacks and play to their strengths.
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PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2010 9:11 pm 
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dwarf archers are expensive and short ranged making them not so good as dedicated archers but very good in a supporting role. they can provide missile fire and actually put up a very good fight if push comes to shove. They can easily deal with most enemy formations with the exceptions of black guard, morranons or uruks with shields.

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PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2010 1:14 am 
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theblackcaptain wrote:
dwarf archers are expensive and short ranged making them not so good as dedicated archers but very good in a supporting role. they can provide missile fire and actually put up a very good fight if push comes to shove. They can easily deal with most enemy formations with the exceptions of black guard, morranons or uruks with shields.


Agreed. I think thats the problem Dwarf archers face is that for the points, troops dedicated to close combat are so good (better defense or better aggression) while dwarf archers in combat can competently stand toe to toe with many other close combat formations they just arent as good as the dedicated CC troops.

They are good 'all rounders' just not great.
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PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2010 7:55 pm 
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Indeed. dwarves can't rely on their shooting to win them any battles at the end of the day. the dwarven way is to get close and in your face with the enemy and chop down the opposition in a horrendous torrent of swirling axeblades and gore. I also agree that while dwarves are better than most at weathering magic (due to their large amount of might points and natural toughness) ringwraiths can really mess up a dwarve battleline with cunning use of pall of night and strength of corruption. these two spells are the absolute bane of dwarven units and while your khazad guard unit led by dain can rip through anything the enemy can field, it will do you no good if you opponent can hold them in place with pall of night and whittle their numbers away with shooting and strength of corruption.
the new dwarven battlehost that allows will of iron rolls to be made on a 3+ will make a huge difference in allowing the dwarves to deal with this frusterating tactic.

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PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2010 3:57 am 
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Just by looking at the unit list my theory is that Iron Guards are better than Khazad Guard at killing most light infantry (D3 or D4 infantry), with their str 4 thrown weapon and fight 5, which gives you a bonus of 2 dice against F3 troops like orcs.

I'll do some mathhammer (hope no one takes offense to this):

3 companies of Khazad Guard/Iron Guard vs light infantry with F3 and D4, calculated without charge bonus.

Kharad guard has 24 attacks, hitting on 3+ with 2H weapon, killing an average of 16.

Iron Guard has 12 thrown weapon, hitting on 4+, killing 6.
Then in CC, they have 30 attacks, hitting on 4+, killing 15, for an average of 22 kills.

Iron Guard is 37% more efficient at killing light infantry with D4.


If the enemy is D3,

Khazad Guards with 24 attacks hitting on 2+ will kill 20.

Iron Guards with 12 thrown weapons hitting on 4+ will kill 6, then 30 attacks hitting on 4+ killing 15, resulting in 21 kills.

Iron Guard is 5% more efficient at killing light infantry with D3: negligible difference


Against heavy infantry on the other hand, assuming enemy is F3 and D5(7)

Khazad guard has 24 attacks, hitting on 4+, killing 12
Iron Guard kill 2 for thrown weapon (hit on 6+), and kill another 5 in CC, for a total of 7.

Khazad Guard is 71% more effective at dealing with heavy infantry.


Against heavy cavalry with D5(6), calculated with full numbers (3 companies) for effectiveness reference since they both have same D

Khazad guard has 24 attacks, hitting on 4+, making 12 hits.
Iron Guard hit 4 for thrown weapon (hit on 5+), and another 10 in CC, for a total of 14 IF they can somehow get their thrown weapon off, and 10 if they just go CC.

Khazad guard is 20% more efficient at killing heavy cavalry in a practical scenario.


From this, it looks like Iron Guard's greatest strength is against the enemy's non-elite light infantry with D4, as well as light cavalry with D4 like Rohan's core. So I'd say that while they do have a place, the Khazad Guard is better well-rounder.
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PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2010 7:20 am 
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It all comes down to model availability - and conversions of plastic models into Khazads or Irons, since metal models come to a high bill.
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PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2010 12:58 pm 
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Enfid wrote:
From this, it looks like Iron Guard's greatest strength is against the enemy's non-elite light infantry with D4, as well as light cavalry with D4 like Rohan's core. So I'd say that while they do have a place, the Khazad Guard is better well-rounder.


Which brings me back to my earlier point. Why pay the points (and the huge monetary cost of models) for Iron Guard, when dwarven rangers with thrown weapons/two handed weapons can do it better for cheaper? Iron Guard rules need to be reviewed by the designers.
They aren't bad, they just do not merit the rare slot. The best reason to take them is that the models look nice.

I played a 1000 game last night using the dwarf list I posted above. The King's champion proved to be a powerhouse last night taking out a unit of glaived elves that aragorn was stuck in with. Aragorn just couldn't dislodge him with duels. I know this was a fluke, but it was nice to see this little hot shot really make opponents give it a new found respect for future games. it will come in handy when they look at him and make way.
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PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2010 3:00 pm 
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Hellfury wrote:
The best reason to take them [the Iron Guard] is that the models look nice.



Really? I don't like the Iron Guard models much, I much prefer the Khazad Guard ones.

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PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2010 4:51 pm 
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General Elessar wrote:
Hellfury wrote:
The best reason to take them [the Iron Guard] is that the models look nice.



Really? I don't like the Iron Guard models much, I much prefer the Khazad Guard ones.

My point is that their main use in the game is better represented as an aesthetic one, not one of choice due to comparison of other similar units. Which one looks better is purely subjective and irrelevant.

Now in SBG on the other hand, I hear Iron Guard are the bees knees. Not so much in WotR.
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