Yeah the above makes sense to me.
As to your question jazlotus, the army that I am playing is the one that will cause your destruction and humiliation! HA HA HA HA HA!

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Veni Vidi Vici

That isn't entirely clear.

There is a rule that says "A formation or hero that is not listed in a particular battlehost may not be included as part of it." Which kind of implies that you can't have non-host heroes move into the host, but that "rule" is in the introductory stuff about how you purchase the host, not how you field it which could mean it only means you can't include them in an organizational sense.

There is also a rule that says "Once a battlehost has been deployed, its constituent Heroes and formations can act completely independently,..." which implies that host heroes may move out of the host formations and that non host heroes may move in (but still not be effected by the host's special rules).

I have seen both positions argued. I personally don't think we have enough info to figure out what the rules as intended are (actually, I don't think the designers even playtested anything in the book and that the situation didn't even occur to them). I do think that the rules for hosts probably work smoother and with less complications and less cheese if they can't.

My Mumak will poo on your battlehost formation causing such a stink, they will all die!!!! In case anyone wondered, we play together! Haha that sounded gay

Good points fogotton law. The rules in the book are not too specific, ill have to have another read through. Thanks.
And jazlotus please can you refrain from using the word gay in such a derogatory way, it is offensive to people such as docdeath.

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Veni Vidi Vici

FL: As I read them, the two sections you quote are not in conflict with each other. A Battlehost purchased, but not yet deployed, can only be made up of the models/companies/formations that are allowed in that Battlehost. You can't place another Epic "in" the Battlehost prior to deployment. Once you deploy it and they can "operate independently" as you said, I have not seen anything indicating an Epic cannot join a BH formation.

Since most BH special rules require the primary (usually only) Epic Hero to be within a certain distance from the Host's formations then there often isn't much use in moving the Hero out.

And if you choose to move an "external" Epic into a Battlehost, the wording of the specific special rules probably are clear enough to know if the external Epic is effected in any way. The words for the Spirit Legion of Angmar special rule is pretty specific that it is for the models in the Battlehost (yeah, I immediately looked for ways to get high-Fight Heros into that BH ). Most of the Rohan and Elf BHs that I’ve looked at are more general in their special rules. Such as getting a free Heroic Charge if the included Epic calls one, or being Steadfast better, or such. Those do not have any direct impact on the non-BH Epic either way and I don’t see why they would be effected.

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Wait ye the finish! The fight is not yours.
Beowulf

http://TacticsInMiniature.com

Like I said, I have seen people argue both sides. I don't have a strong opinion one way or the other and would be perfectly fine playing with either ruling if anyone I knew actually used BHs.

Frankly, I don't think it would even be an issue for anyone if it weren't for putting Ringwraiths into the Gorgoroth Orc Horde. 18 companies of orcs that all bounce hits with Khamul's ability, reroll misses from the betrayer, get free will of iron rolls, etc...

How many of these issues come down to those damned named Nazgul? Oh how I wish GW never went down that road...

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Wait ye the finish! The fight is not yours.
Beowulf

http://TacticsInMiniature.com

I agree with you although if the Undying or the Witch-king were the nly one in there it wouldn't reallly be a problem. GW seriously messed up those wraiths!

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"I am the Flying Spagetti Monster. Thou shall have no other monsters before me"
-FSM.

Witch king should havebeen the best in the game

Which are the best Ringwraiths would you say?

Khamul in a large formation, Betrayer in a mid-high strength formation, Dark Mashal with low Fight formations, The Tainted in a formation of ghosts, the only one that isn't really useful is the WK. If they had made all the Nazgul Level 2 mastery, they would be ok, then you could ugrade the WK to have level 3 mastery. That would take care of most of the overpoweredness of them, while still making the WK worth his points.

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"Leave Sauron to me."
If you're in the Raleigh, NC area, let me know.

In WOTR from best wraith to worst wraith:
Khamul, The betrayer, The Knight of Umbar, The Dwimmerlaik, The Tainted, The Dark Marshal, The Shadow Lord, the Undying, the Witch-king (only because of his cost otherwise he'd be above the Undying)

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"I am the Flying Spagetti Monster. Thou shall have no other monsters before me"
-FSM.

Khamul in a large CHEAP formation.

He does considerably less for you in a formation of 6 companies of Uruk Hai or Easterling Pikemen that he does in with common orcs that are less than half the price.

Khamul is most useful when he is redirecting hits from his formation onto troops that are more expensive. If he is bouncing 1/3 hits on your 35 point Uruk Hai but has to put them onto 15 point goblins that is nice and all, then for every 70 points of your Uruk-Hai that your opponent kills, Khamul only kills 15 points of Goblins. compare to putting him in with 15 point orcs and being able to redirect 1/3 of hits onto Uruk Hai. For every 30 points of goblins your opponent kills, Khamul kills 35 points of Uruk-Hai. In that circumstance it actually becomes better for your opponent to avoid Khamul's formation entirely rather than attack and kill more of himself than the enemy.

That's true.

_________________
"Leave Sauron to me."
If you're in the Raleigh, NC area, let me know.

I really don't see how it can be considered an enhanced terror. Rolling 3 dice and discarding the highest for a courage test isn't really that useful. First you increase their chance of getting a high roll, then you lower it by the same amount. So all you're doing is doing what you would normally do, but it just SEEMS that it's been upgraded. If it was roll 3 dice and discard the 2 lowest, that would be great, but then that would be the same as just saying roll one dice.

_________________
"Leave Sauron to me."
If you're in the Raleigh, NC area, let me know.

What would be better with a 15 point goblin formation? Khamul or the Dark Marshal?

Depends which you like better. If you're up against Elves, then the Dark Marshal might be a bit better because of his Inspiring leader (but his high figth isn't going to garner you any extra dice), but Khamul will keep your goblins going for a long time.

_________________
"Leave Sauron to me."
If you're in the Raleigh, NC area, let me know.

Goblins are better in big formations

What if you were fighting Mordor?

The Dark Marhal is hardly the best one.

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"I am the Flying Spagetti Monster. Thou shall have no other monsters before me"
-FSM.