All times are UTC


It is currently Sat Nov 23, 2024 5:56 am



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 16 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Custom Rules - The Kingdom of Rhovanion
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 2:14 am 
Loremaster
Loremaster
User avatar
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2010 2:47 pm
Posts: 1040
Location: Newton Aycliffe, UK
Ok heres my dilemma.

My current Hobby project is a Historical Anglo-Saxon force for Gripping Beasts new game SAGA, using Gripping Beast and Wargames Factory models. And I'm really liking these models, much more than GW's Rohan (infantry).

However, SBG is and always will be my favourite game system, and I'd like to use my Saxons in SBG if possible. The idea of Anglo-Saxon style Rohan Shieldwalls really appeal to me. But the current Rohan rules don't appeal to me, so I'm considering ways in which the rules for Rohan infantry can be modified. A look through the various Wikipedia articles on LOTR led me to the "Kingdom of Rhovanion".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhovanion

Quote:
As the Third Age progressed, several tribes and princes of Northmen occupied areas of Rhovanion, living in the Vales of Anduin, around and in the great forest, and across the grassy plains. By T.A. 1250 one of these princes, Vidugavia, claimed the title "King of Rhovanion", though his realm lay only between Mirkwood and the River Running. Vidugavia allied himself with Gondor (which claimed much of the southern part of Rhovanion); his daughter Vidumavi married into Gondor's royal house, and his grandson Vinitharya became King Eldacar of Gondor in T.A. 1432.


Oh, and this is interesting - from the wiki article on the Kings of Gondor.

Quote:
Valacar r. 1366–1432. Married Vidumavi, princess of Rhovanion. Later in his reign, unrest grew in the coastal provinces.

Vinitharya, crowned as Eldacar, reigned 1432–1437. Deposed and driven into exile in Rhovanion by his distant relative, Castamir.

Castamir usurped the throne during the Kin-strife in 1437, killed in 1447

Eldacar restored, r. 1447–1490


Vidugavia was an early King of "Rhovanion" who allied himself with Gondor . His daughter, "Princess" Vidumavi was married to the 20th King of Gondor (Valacar).. Their son, Eldacar the 21st King of Gondor was ousted by Castamir who had the support of the pure-blood Numenorian Nobles who resented Eldacar as the son of a non-Numenorian. (racists :P). Castamir was defeated and killed, with his remaining supporters fleeing south to Harad and capturing/founding the City of Umbar in its present state. Eldacar was restored to the throne of Gondor. This whole saga is known as the Kin Strife (there was at least one SBG scenario based on this, with 3 Hasharin vs A Gondor King and Warriors of Minas Tirith. I can't remember which book or White Dwarf it was from though).

Quote:
The Kin-strife was a disastrous civil war in Gondor.

The unrest that created the Kin-strife began when Valacar, the son of the Gondorian king Rómendacil II, married a woman of the Northmen of Rhovanion, Vidumavi. She bore him a son Eldacar, but many Gondorians of Númenórean blood were angered by this mixing of blood of Middle Men and Númenóreans, and the coastal provinces grew increasingly restless as Valacar aged.

When in 1432 of the Third Age Eldacar succeeded his father the unrest grew into open rebellion, as many Gondorians saw Eldacar as a halfbreed who had no right to rule. The chief of them was his distant relative Castamir the Usurper, Captain of Ships, who in T.A. 1437 besieged Eldacar in Osgiliath and forced him into exile. During the siege Osgiliath was burned, and the great Dome of Stars was destroyed, and the palantír kept there was lost. Castamir also murdered Eldacar's son and heir Ornendil. Eldacar fled to his relatives in Rhovanion.

A full decade later, in T.A. 1447, a rebellion against Castamir's cruel rule took place, and Eldacar returned with Rhovanion troops. Many Dúnedain joined him. Eldacar managed to kill Castamir at the Battle of the Crossings of Erui, but Castamir's sons and many of their supporters fled south. After a siege lasting a year Pelargir fell to Eldacar and the surviving rebels left for Umbar. Eldacar could not follow them, as the fleet was under Castamir's control.

Not only did Gondor lose the city of Umbar for four centuries and gain a new enemy in the Corsairs of Umbar, descendants of Castamir's sons, but also many of the Númenóreans of purest blood were killed during the civil war, leaving Gondor weakened.

The Kin-strife was, along with the Great Plague, one of the chief reasons for the abandonment of the fortresses in and surrounding Mordor, and the first disaster leading to Gondor's slow decline . Another reason for the abandoning of the provinces of Gondor in Mordor was because of the increasing threat of the ringwraiths.


The Kingdom of Rhovanion appears to have persisted until the time of the Great Plague, after which they were conquered by the Wainriders.

Quote:
The Great Plague of T.A. 1636 began the long decline of Rhovanion. It was heavily felt in this land, killing off roughly half the people and half of their horses. When the Wainriders came from the east and assailed the people of Rhovanion in T.A. 1851, most of their kingdoms were destroyed and the remaining people enslaved. Gondor withdrew its eastern border to the Anduin. About this time the Éothéod formed in the lower Vales of Anduin from people fleeing west from the Wainriders. A revolt against the Wainriders in T.A. 1899 was suppressed. When the Wainriders were finally defeated by Gondor and the Northmen in T.A. 1944, eastern Rhovanion was so exhausted that it makes few appearances in the later history of the Third Age.[6]


Furthermore, they are related to the Rohirrim, because the original Eotheod - the ancestors of Eorl the Young, first King of Rohan - claimed to descend from these Kings of Rhovanion.

Quote:
Much later, the history of the House of Eorl states that "The forefathers of Eorl claimed descent from kings of Rhovanion, whose realm lay beyond Mirkwood before the invasions of the Wainriders, and thus they accounted themselves kinsmen of the kings of Gondor descended from Eldacar."



So, it seems to me that I've found the perfect concept for a homebrew faction. :D It ticks all the boxes - they're distant ancestors of the Rohirrim, so the Anglo-Saxon theme shared by Rohan is probably applicable. Shieldwalls, and other classic features of Dark Age warfare would be relevant. What do you think?

Keep in mind that I mostly just play at a gaming club and not GW anymore, so as long as my opponents agree theres nothing stopping me from using non-GW proxied models or coming up with my own rules. The people in my club are fairly relaxed when it comes to houseruling etc, and a few even design their own games. And I doubt they'll be adopting the new Warband Sourcebooks anytime soon so that won't be a problem.

_________________
My (more regularly updated) painting blog:
https://www.facebook.com/Pindergorn/
Top
  Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Custom Rules - The Kingdom of Rhovanion
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 3:34 am 
Wayfarer
Wayfarer
Offline

Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2011 7:36 pm
Posts: 3
I've been wanting to do the same for quite some time but finding suitable rules to "counts as" for the rovanions was always my problem
Top
  Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Custom Rules - The Kingdom of Rhovanion
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 3:53 am 
Loremaster
Loremaster
User avatar
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2010 2:47 pm
Posts: 1040
Location: Newton Aycliffe, UK
VonGadsen wrote:
I've been wanting to do the same for quite some time but finding suitable rules to "counts as" for the rovanions was always my problem


Its good to see I'm not the only one considering this...Clearly it would require considerable houseruling. I'm considering using the following profiles as baselines.

Warriors of Rohan.
Rohan Royal Guard.
Captain of Rohan.
King of Men.

I intend not to include cavalry - or very little - to represent a Kingdom too poor to afford good quality horses and/or lacking the necessary skills to breed and train good quality warhorses. Infantry based Shieldwalls and some limited Archery is what I'm aiming for.

A warning - I'm intending/or was intending, to base my ideas on my own collection of Anglo Saxon models - not GW's Rohan models. I have Unarmoured Saxon Fyrd - farmers, tradesman and other conscripted warriors, armed with an assortment of shields, hand weapons and bows. Thegns - relatively wealthy and well trained warriors, tend to be armoured with minimal chainmail and armed with shields, swords, axes and spears. And Huscarls armed with Dane Axes - very wealthy or otherwise high status warriors, armed with the best weapons and armour.

Saxon Fyrd.http://wargamesfactory.com/webstore/hammer-of-the-gods/saxon-fyrd
Saxon Thegns. http://www.grippingbeast.com/webpage.php?PageID=94
Saxon Huscarls. http://www.grippingbeast.com/photos/and04.jpg


And finally, one thing I should make clear - the Kingdom of Rhovanion is not the same as the Kingdom of Rohan. The two kingdoms existed hundreds if not thousands of years apart - the Rhovanions are distant ancestors of the Rohirrim, and were almost wiped out by the Great Plague then conquered by the Wainriders (Easterlings) long before Eorl the Young. Eorl's ancestors, the "Eotheod" were related to the Rhovanions because they all came from the same region in the North. At least, thats my understanding. A similar parallel are the Germanic tribes of the early Dark Ages. The Angles, Saxons and Jutes emmigrated to England, whereas other Germanic tribes stayed behind in Germany.

_________________
My (more regularly updated) painting blog:
https://www.facebook.com/Pindergorn/
Top
  Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Custom Rules - The Kingdom of Rhovanion
PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 11:49 pm 
Loremaster
Loremaster
User avatar
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2010 2:47 pm
Posts: 1040
Location: Newton Aycliffe, UK
Warriors

Tribal Levy

In times of war, all men regardless of fighting ability and social status are called upon by oath to defend the King and the Kingdom.

Image

Points value: 5

F 3/4+
S 3
D 3
A 1
W 1
C 3

Wargear
The base profile includes a hand weapon.

Spear: 1pts
Shield: 1pt

Special Rules:

Hunters. At a cost of 1pt per model, the model's shoot value is upgraded to 3+ and all equipment is exchanged for a Shortbow (Strength 2 18" bow). Models otherwise count as unarmed in combat.

Rhovanion Warriors.

Image

Points Value: 7

F 4
S 3
D 4
A 1
W 1
C 3

Wargear.
The base profile includes a hand weapon and armour.

Spear 1pts
Shield 1pt
Banner 25pts.

King's Guard

Chosen from only the strongest and most ruthless warriors, they are sworn to defend their King or fight to the last man should he fall in battle. Wielding deadly 2 handed axes, they splinter shields and hew armour in defense of their King.

Image

Points value: 12pts

F 4/-
S 4
D 6
A 1
W 1
C 4

Wargear.
The base profile includes a 2 handed Axe, armour and a shield.

Banner 30pts. (One Kings Guard per hero in the same force may exchange his Axe for a banner. Note that it therefore counts as unarmed, receiving a -1 penalty to its roll to win a fight).

Special Rules:

Bodyguard. Refer to main rulebook.

Improvised armour. To account for the lack of good quality armour, Kings' Guards are known to carry shields strapped to their backs in battle to give extra protection against blows from behind. These shields give a passive +1 Defense bonus only, and cannot be used to shield.

Heroes

Rhovanion King.

Image

Points Value: 55

F 5/4+
S 4
D 4
A 2
W 2
C 5

Might: 2
Will: 2
Fate: 1

Wargear.
The base profile includes a sword (hand weapon).

Heavy Armour............................... 10pts
Shield ........................................ 5pts
Two handed weapon........................ 5pts. (must exchange hand weapon)
Horse......................................... 10pts

King Vidugavia.

The Mannish Kingdom of Rhovanion came to prominence in the mid-13th century of the Third Age, when Minalcar of Gondor served as Regent for his uncle, King Atanatar II of Gondor. About this time Vidugavia, "the most powerful of the northern princes" called himself King of Rhovanion, though the land he governed lay only between Mirkwood and the River Running. The Regent led a great expedition into Rhovanion in T.A. 1248 and utterly defeated the Easterlings, with substantial help from the Northmen and from Vidugavia in particular. Vidugavia became Gondor's strong ally, and in T.A. 1250 the Regent sent his son Valacar as ambassador to Vidugavia. But Valacar, much taken with the culture of the North, "far exceeded his father's design" by marrying Vidugavia's daughter Vidumavi, and their son Vinitharya was raised among the Northmen. When Minalcar acceded to the throne of Gondor as Rómendacil II, Valacar became the heir to the throne. The mixed ancestry of Valacar's son (known as Eldacar in Gondor) became a matter of contention: many were not prepared to allow as king a man whose Númenórean blood was mingled with that of a "lesser" race, and many feared that he would prove to be short-lived (as his mother's people were, compared with the ruling line of Gondor). This led to the Kin-strife in Gondor, a bloody civil war that decimated the ruling families.

Points Value: 80

F 5/4+
S 4
D 7
A 2
W 2
C 6

Might: 3
Will: 2
Fate: 1

Wargear.
King Vidugavia carries a sword (hand weapon), a shield and heavy armour.

Special Rules:

King in the North. Though he was not the first of the Northern Princes to style himself as King of Rhovanion, Vidugavia was the first to gain the support and recognition of the Kingdom of Gondor. Allying himself with that Southern Kingdom, he aided Gondor in battle against the Easterling Wainriders and for a time, drove them back beyond the eastern borders of Rhovanion. Known for his courage in battle and fighting personally in the Shieldwall, Vidugavia was an inspirational leader. The range of his standfast is 12" rather than 6".

_________________
My (more regularly updated) painting blog:
https://www.facebook.com/Pindergorn/


Last edited by Pindergorn on Mon Feb 13, 2012 7:57 pm, edited 4 times in total.
Top
  Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Custom Rules - The Kingdom of Rhovanion
PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 11:50 pm 
Loremaster
Loremaster
User avatar
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2010 2:47 pm
Posts: 1040
Location: Newton Aycliffe, UK
What do you think? C&C welcome.

_________________
My (more regularly updated) painting blog:
https://www.facebook.com/Pindergorn/
Top
  Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Custom Rules - The Kingdom of Rhovanion
PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 9:03 pm 
Loremaster
Loremaster
User avatar
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2010 2:47 pm
Posts: 1040
Location: Newton Aycliffe, UK
Really? Does noone have an opinion to offer?

_________________
My (more regularly updated) painting blog:
https://www.facebook.com/Pindergorn/
Top
  Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Custom Rules - The Kingdom of Rhovanion
PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2012 9:13 pm 
Elven Warrior
Elven Warrior
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2009 7:20 pm
Posts: 720
Location: Norwich, Great Britain
Sorry no-one has replied. I read this thread a few days ago and probably should have done.

I've made a few house rules in my time, and I've got to say I'm very impressed.

The profiles seem very balanced, which is often hard to achieve as you are tempted to make your own creations very powerful. :)

I like how the fluff is listed and none of the profiles veer from it. The special rules are also original and fluffy, I particulary like the Improvised Armour Rule on the Kings Guard.

In relation to your question on the Rhovanion Spear, I like the rule very much, and I think 2 points is the right amount. The Harad War Spear has 2 uses and thats 1 point less, but I think throwing weapons are quite powerful, so the cost seems right.

Hope I helped, and keep up the good work. 8)

_________________
Sun is by sea-men always hoped for,
when they fare away over the fishes' bath,
until the brine-stallion they bring to land.
OERP
Top
  Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Custom Rules - The Kingdom of Rhovanion
PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2012 11:02 pm 
Loremaster
Loremaster
User avatar
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2010 2:47 pm
Posts: 1040
Location: Newton Aycliffe, UK
Thankyou. :D

The idea is not to create powerful profiles but to create rules that would be acceptable to gamers at my club. To that end, I'm only modifying existing rules, upping or lowerering stats and the points accordingly, adding or changing special rules. Not writing profiles from scratch. I initially wanted to do Rohan shieldwalls, but the Rohan throwing spear doesn't allow you to form strong defensive shieldwalls like the normal spear does. Throwing weapons are also a classic feature of shieldwall combat, so I didn't want to just replace them either. So I decided to come up with rules for their ancestors (the Rohirrim's direct ancestors the Eotheod came from the North around the region of Rhovanion and were related to if not part of the Kingdom of Rhovanion). I figured, their cultures would have been similar so the Dark Age Saxon theme is still applicable. And the Kingdom of Rhovanion pre-dates the Rohirrim's mastery of horses.

Rules to come.

Rhovanion Captain.
Rhovanion King.
Kings Champion / Captain of the King's Guard. (basically, a Captain with the bodyguard rule [restricted to Kings only] ).
King Vidugavia (the King who made an alliance with Gondor, married his daughter to Gondor's King and fought with Gondor against the Wainriders).

_________________
My (more regularly updated) painting blog:
https://www.facebook.com/Pindergorn/
Top
  Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Custom Rules - The Kingdom of Rhovanion
PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2012 11:03 pm 
Elven Elder
Elven Elder
User avatar
Offline

Joined: Sun Sep 18, 2011 9:42 pm
Posts: 3131
Location: In Angband, at Morgoth's feet.
Make the Guards banner 30 pts. It's the only thing that doesn't sit in line with the other points that GW has. 25 for a F3 model to have a banner, 30 for F4, 35 for F5 and presumably so on and so forth. Other then the guards, you really aren't making any new profiles, even though they do fit with the theme of Rhovanian forces. My group actually uses that same rule for Rohan throwing spears.

_________________
:saruman "Leave Sauron to me."
If you're in the Raleigh, NC area, let me know.
Top
  Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Custom Rules - The Kingdom of Rhovanion
PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2012 11:05 pm 
Loremaster
Loremaster
User avatar
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2010 2:47 pm
Posts: 1040
Location: Newton Aycliffe, UK
Draugluin wrote:
Make the Guards banner 30 pts. It's the only thing that doesn't sit in line with the other points that GW has. 25 for a F3 model to have a banner, 30 for F4, 35 for F5 and presumably so on and so forth. Other then the guards, you really aren't making any new profiles, even though they do fit with the theme of Rhovanian forces. My group actually uses that same rule for Rohan throwing spears.


Ah, thanks for that. The Kings Guard were based on Rohan Royal Guard so the banner should have been 30pts anyway - must have gotten mixed up with the warriors.
And yes, I'm trying to change as little as possible.

_________________
My (more regularly updated) painting blog:
https://www.facebook.com/Pindergorn/
Top
  Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Custom Rules - The Kingdom of Rhovanion
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 9:37 pm 
Loremaster
Loremaster
User avatar
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2010 2:47 pm
Posts: 1040
Location: Newton Aycliffe, UK
Updated with Rhovanion King.

_________________
My (more regularly updated) painting blog:
https://www.facebook.com/Pindergorn/
Top
  Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Custom Rules - The Kingdom of Rhovanion
PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 3:53 am 
Elven Elder
Elven Elder
User avatar
Offline

Joined: Sun Sep 18, 2011 9:42 pm
Posts: 3131
Location: In Angband, at Morgoth's feet.
King Ondoher wrote:
Draugluin wrote:
Make the Guards banner 30 pts. It's the only thing that doesn't sit in line with the other points that GW has. 25 for a F3 model to have a banner, 30 for F4, 35 for F5 and presumably so on and so forth. Other then the guards, you really aren't making any new profiles, even though they do fit with the theme of Rhovanian forces. My group actually uses that same rule for Rohan throwing spears.


Ah, thanks for that. The Kings Guard were based on Rohan Royal Guard so the banner should have been 30pts anyway - must have gotten mixed up with the warriors.
And yes, I'm trying to change as little as possible.

Turns out that all banners now cost the same: 25 pts.

_________________
:saruman "Leave Sauron to me."
If you're in the Raleigh, NC area, let me know.
Top
  Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Custom Rules - The Kingdom of Rhovanion
PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 11:47 am 
Loremaster
Loremaster
User avatar
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2010 2:47 pm
Posts: 1040
Location: Newton Aycliffe, UK
:shock:

_________________
My (more regularly updated) painting blog:
https://www.facebook.com/Pindergorn/
Top
  Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Custom Rules - The Kingdom of Rhovanion
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 5:25 pm 
Elven Warrior
Elven Warrior
User avatar
Offline

Joined: Fri Feb 25, 2011 5:39 pm
Posts: 718
Location: Everywhere...
Images: 1
I really like the rules for King Vidugavia, all of the profiles are really well done

P.S. don't forget to update the thread on TLA :P

_________________
C.A.P.T.A.I.N. = Crazy And Proud To Admit It Now
http://chrisgomhobbyblog.blogspot.com/
Top
  Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Custom Rules - The Kingdom of Rhovanion
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 5:29 pm 
Loremaster
Loremaster
User avatar
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2010 2:47 pm
Posts: 1040
Location: Newton Aycliffe, UK
Chris GoM wrote:
I really like the rules for King Vidugavia, all of the profiles are really well done

P.S. don't forget to update the thread on TLA :P


When I can be bothered...too many assignments.

_________________
My (more regularly updated) painting blog:
https://www.facebook.com/Pindergorn/
Top
  Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Custom Rules - The Kingdom of Rhovanion
PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:26 am 
Kinsman
Kinsman
User avatar
Offline

Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2007 2:28 am
Posts: 122
Location: Delaware, USA
Images: 25
Very well done. I like the passive armor of the shield on the back rule. Nice touch.
Top
  Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 16 posts ] 

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 218 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: