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 Post subject: Little Banner Question
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 7:29 pm 
Kinsman
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Hi
When I make my army lists, I often think of how many banners I should have, asking myself "Should I another banner?" "Maybe 1infantry and 1 cavalry?"
So now I wanted to ask you guys. How many banners do you use in forces (I'm talking about SBG) of, say, 500 or 700points? Are you using 1 banner per warband, 1 for each to, three or by some other system?
Just thought it would be interesting, even if it might sound not-worth-a-topic. Sorry if a similar post already exists.
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 Post subject: Re: Little Banner Question
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 7:39 pm 
Kinsman
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Generally I wouldn't even be thinking about a banner until I get over 700 points, I'd rather have the extra men. I might consider it if I was playing an army without spear support though (eg Rohan and Dwarves)

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 Post subject: Re: Little Banner Question
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 8:19 pm 
Kinsman
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4 factors for my rohan force:

1) (and probably most important) size of the force. in smaller skirmishes 2-3 extra troops are more valuable than 3-4 re-rolls a turn when a battle will only last 3-4 turns. Bigger forces are easier to justify the cost to add in some banners.

2) Fight skill. If my fight is better then I will more consider purchasing a banner. Sometimes your going to roll a 1 or a 2 for the fight. It happens. But when you roll a 1 to lose to a 2 or something a re-roll saves lives and works wonders. Also works good if you have a worse fight skill, but when the other guy rolls a 6, nothing you can do :roll:

3) calvery. When you are charged, your 13 point calvery are at the same level as a 6 point orc. Ouch. So if im going to invest in 12 or more cav then I'll consider a banner.

4) Warbands. You are at 3 warbands with 36 troops and you only have a few points left. If you buy another capitain, he wont get any troops, so its a waste. So your upgrading grunts to elites, why not scold a few and take away all their weapons and make them carry a tapestry around instead? :P

The hardest part about a banner is the self control to keep someone out of battle to pick up the banner if the bearer is killed. another 7-15 point model doing nothing? Or losing a 25 point banner? :x

Just like a spear, shield, and 2-handed soldier, a banner bearer has his place. Play around with them and you will see the niche they fill. The biggest problem I find, is that we are so used to playing without them, that when you throw them in, you will roll all your battles, then face palm realizing those 3 you just lost were infront of your banner. :oops:
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 Post subject: Re: Little Banner Question
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 8:34 pm 
Kinsman
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Thanks for the quick response, both of you :)
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 Post subject: Re: Little Banner Question
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 9:09 pm 
Elven Elder
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Yes, the main problem with banners, is that you always forget you have them until after you move to the next fight.

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 Post subject: Re: Little Banner Question
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 9:58 pm 
Ringwraith
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With the new scenarios, and victory points granted for banners, taking at least one in 500 points, or two in 750+, seems sensible.
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 Post subject: Re: Little Banner Question
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 10:28 pm 
Elven Warrior
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I am considering a similar rule to whafrog myself.
It is worth it for VP and can often save lives. But if teh question is "spears for my 2nd rank or a banner" then it is spears every time.
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 Post subject: Re: Little Banner Question
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:14 am 
Elven Elder
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Do Amdur and the Golden King count as banners when calculating VP?

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 Post subject: Re: Little Banner Question
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:28 am 
Ringwraith
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I like to do a shieldwall with the bannerman in basecontact with the fellows with spears. Technically, they are not part of the fight, so if the bannerman gets sniped, the spearmen can grab it as it falls.

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 Post subject: Re: Little Banner Question
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 4:47 am 
Kinsman
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Lately, my rolls are generally terrible so I have been adjusting by including a banner per 2-3 warbands when I have low Fight value. Unfortunately, I find that I am unable to pick up the banner for 1 reason or another once the original bearer dies. It seems giving my warrior a banner is like a death wish -- not worth it for me. Although my cavalry carrying banner seems to be more effective for me than foot. Inaddition, I prefer not to use a banner when I have another re-roll source already.

Everyone's tactic and playing style are different. Experiment and have fun playing with banner(s)!

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 Post subject: Re: Little Banner Question
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 8:16 am 
Craftsman
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I play dwarves a lot so banners are essential to me! I run two banners in three warbands with 700 points.

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 Post subject: Re: Little Banner Question
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 11:02 am 
Elven Warrior
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Draugluin wrote:
Do Amdur and the Golden King count as banners when calculating VP?


"The Golden King’s throne also counts as a banner (although as it does not hinder the Golden King in any way, he does not suffer a -1 penalty for ‘carrying’ it)"

Almost certainly for the Golden King, not sure about Amdur. There is no visible banner, no rules about hindering, suffering a penalty etc. I would think the Amdur rule is akin to any other Hero-acting-as-banner rule, so therefore does not actually 'count' as a banner.

Regarding banners, they are now a MUST for players using the new Warband rules. I'm still not swayed and so will continue to use the older rules with my gaming buddies (none of us actually have the books yet). Banners were useful before and are now more so! 8)

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 Post subject: Re: Little Banner Question
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 3:38 pm 
Kinsman
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simmuskhan wrote:
I play dwarves a lot so banners are essential to me! I run two banners in three warbands with 700 points.


Should just bring a king's champion, then you get 2 fate points on each banner and pretty cheap hero 8)
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 Post subject: Re: Little Banner Question
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 4:46 pm 
Kinsman
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Battalia wrote:
simmuskhan wrote:
I play dwarves a lot so banners are essential to me! I run two banners in three warbands with 700 points.


Should just bring a king's champion, then you get 2 fate points on each banner and pretty cheap hero 8)



QFT!

I play Dwarves Grey Company and starting a Rohan force. I might still be in the mindset that I NEED MOAR TROOPZ! from LoME playing. Now, i find that i can skimp on the models (slightly) and still field a considerably competitive force.

To Banner, or Not to banner?

And what about uber banners such as Halbarad's? Worth him carrying? Almost doubles his point cost...
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