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 Post subject: Isengard army
PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 4:09 am 
Wayfarer
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Warband 1:
Vrashku
4 Uruk Warriors w/shields
4 Uruk Warriors w/crossbows
4 Uruk Berserkers
Total: 204

Warband 2:
Ugluk
4 Uruk Warriors w/shields
4 Uruk Warriors w/crossbows
4 Uruk Warriors w/pikes
Total: 188

Warband 3:
Uruk Captain w/heavy armour & shield
Uruk Warrior w/banner
6 Uruk Warriors w/pikes
2 Uruk Warriors w/shield
Uruk Shaman
Total: 225

Grand Total: 617pts

Ok, so that's the army as of right now, I could really use any suggestions as to improvements and tactics. I'd at least be able to at least tighten my matches against my closest friend and battle "buddy" WhoelsebutHaldir (Ian) and his high elves. Normally I accept losing to him, he has years more experience and a much larger army with great variation. However, as some of you may know, he's been "testing" armies on me, and recent matches have really been lopsided. So I'd like to change that, at least make them close, maybe even win a few.

Any help would be really appreciated,
Alexander
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 Post subject: Re: Isengard army
PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 1:41 pm 
Craftsman
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Hey there,

First, your army list.
From what I see your list looks ok you might be able to hone it a bit sharper with a few small changes.
First up what pts do you normally play? 617 seems a bit random lol, second, are these the only models that you have or can you change it up a bit?

For 600pts I would suggest swapping your captain for Mauhur (expensive model though) as his extra attack and swift movement make him quite deadly plus he comes with an extra might point. Alternatively sit your own captain at the back and declare him your General, his D7 may help in keeping him alive.

As far as your warriors go I'd suggest drop some shields, to add some pikes and take your maximum (or close to) number of crossbows. The added missile fire should mean that you are not automatically having to march towards the elves making things more even. The added pikes should means that you can bring more attacks onto the enemy.

Its good that you have a shaman and a banner as both are very useful (well shaman almost essential)

In regard to the fighting itself, my big question is how are you using the list?
What is it that seems to make victory fall out of your grasp? Is your opponent butchering you at range, is he smashing through your lines in combat, forever dancing out of reach or outflanking you on all sides. If you can understand what it is that's going wrong you can be ready to counter it.

With a heavily armoured uruk force your main strengths are that you have very strong infantry each capable of taking pain and dishing it out. An uruk-hai vs an elf in combat can be pretty even because the elf has a higher chance of winning but the uruk more chance of wounding (assuming he has a shield, though also be wary of the phalanx formation as your front warriors can be trapped quite easily). Make sure that the shields fill up your front rank with at least one rank of pikes behind. If from there you have your crossbowmen running around the sides with the beserkers you should find that his elves are being stretched to cover all of the angles.
Keep that shaman behind your army at all costs and keep him alive. As long as he is alive and within 6inches of another hero you can usually make your whole army immune to running away (generally anyhow). His ability to keep uruk-hai alive is cool but its the auto pass on courage that you take him for.
Also do not be shy of throwing vrasku or your crossbows into combat. They're all decent fighters and when things get close your better hitting the elves in the face than shooting through your own men.

You've also mentioned that your opponent is more experienced. That really is invaluable in winning games, past experience. Only way you can get it is to keep playing, but also ask your opponent his opinion at the end of a match. I've been playing wargames for years and like to think I'm a decent player but whenever I lose I talk with my opponent about what went wrong, what I could have done differently. Can add a lot of perspective.

Anyhow best of luck and hope this helps.
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 Post subject: Re: Isengard army
PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 1:59 pm 
Ringwraith
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Gondorian Captain wrote:
For 600pts I would suggest swapping your captain for Mauhur (expensive model though) as his extra attack and swift movement make him quite deadly plus he comes with an extra might point.


Mauhur doesn't have extra Might. Also, without scouts his potential is kind of wasted. Otherwise, good points :)
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 Post subject: Re: Isengard army
PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 2:11 pm 
Craftsman
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Ooops, I missed that one, guess I assumed like all the other named captains he had 3. I do find his movement useful even without scouts as it gives him that little extra bit to get where he needs to be.

Without three might pts Mauhur isn't quite as good so a captain is equally viable. Don't get me wrong his extra attack makes for a solid fighter, I guess where Mauhur is offensive, your captain is defensive.
I also forgot to say if you have the models you may want to consider a couple of orcs to follow ugluk. Means that he can kill a very cheap model to make everyone else fearless (a back up for your shaman dying)
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 Post subject: Re: Isengard army
PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 3:29 pm 
Wayfarer
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Gondorian Captain wrote:
Hey there,

First, your army list.
From what I see your list looks ok you might be able to hone it a bit sharper with a few small changes.
First up what pts do you normally play? 617 seems a bit random lol, second, are these the only models that you have or can you change it up a bit?

For 600pts I would suggest swapping your captain for Mauhur (expensive model though) as his extra attack and swift movement make him quite deadly plus he comes with an extra might point. Alternatively sit your own captain at the back and declare him your General, his D7 may help in keeping him alive.

As far as your warriors go I'd suggest drop some shields, to add some pikes and take your maximum (or close to) number of crossbows. The added missile fire should mean that you are not automatically having to march towards the elves making things more even. The added pikes should means that you can bring more attacks onto the enemy.

Its good that you have a shaman and a banner as both are very useful (well shaman almost essential)

In regard to the fighting itself, my big question is how are you using the list?
What is it that seems to make victory fall out of your grasp? Is your opponent butchering you at range, is he smashing through your lines in combat, forever dancing out of reach or outflanking you on all sides. If you can understand what it is that's going wrong you can be ready to counter it.

With a heavily armoured uruk force your main strengths are that you have very strong infantry each capable of taking pain and dishing it out. An uruk-hai vs an elf in combat can be pretty even because the elf has a higher chance of winning but the uruk more chance of wounding (assuming he has a shield, though also be wary of the phalanx formation as your front warriors can be trapped quite easily). Make sure that the shields fill up your front rank with at least one rank of pikes behind. If from there you have your crossbowmen running around the sides with the beserkers you should find that his elves are being stretched to cover all of the angles.
Keep that shaman behind your army at all costs and keep him alive. As long as he is alive and within 6inches of another hero you can usually make your whole army immune to running away (generally anyhow). His ability to keep uruk-hai alive is cool but its the auto pass on courage that you take him for.
Also do not be shy of throwing vrasku or your crossbows into combat. They're all decent fighters and when things get close your better hitting the elves in the face than shooting through your own men.

You've also mentioned that your opponent is more experienced. That really is invaluable in winning games, past experience. Only way you can get it is to keep playing, but also ask your opponent his opinion at the end of a match. I've been playing wargames for years and like to think I'm a decent player but whenever I lose I talk with my opponent about what went wrong, what I could have done differently. Can add a lot of perspective.

Anyhow best of luck and hope this helps.

Thanks for the advice, I plan on buying a bit more of everything, as this is my maximum force right now, unless scouts should be put it, I have those. He seems to beat me a lot in close combat, due to his higher fight value. I think i'll take your advice in battle, and maybe he'll be willing to give me some insight after our next match.
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 Post subject: Re: Isengard army
PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 4:02 pm 
Craftsman
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If he's beating you up close in combat try and make the classic sheildwall formation, that's front rank with shields, second rank with pikes, Heroes fighting in the front rank, shaman and banner at the back.
Now because you have pikes its possible for you to add a third rank to add extra attacks, this can be devastating when done right but it does mean your warriors at the front can be trapped due to not having enough room to back away from fights.
Use your crossbowmen or beserkers to attack the enemy flanks.
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 Post subject: Re: Isengard army
PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 4:25 pm 
Ringwraith
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Some information on his tactics will make it easier for us to suggest counter-attack strategies.

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 Post subject: Re: Isengard army
PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:12 pm 
Elven Warrior
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My tactics are my own to use! Muahahahahahahaha!!! But to Alex if you want to borrow some of my evil stuff that's lying around your welcome too.
Keep your shield wall together for as long as possible and don't let my cav get around your flanks in regards to our last game.

As an aside I think that my dice favour me:) . That or your just unlucky sometimes:D

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