The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey opinions, SPOILERS!

Pindergorn · **Posted:** Sun Jan 13, 2013 12:43 pm

Maybe Glamdring and Orcrists batteries were flat...

whafrog · **Posted:** Sun Jan 13, 2013 3:10 pm

Beowulf03809 wrote:

It's not that I have a problem with her communicating telepathically. That is one of her traits. But to do it for no reason when you're face to face?

There was a reason: Saruman. The look on Gandalf's face when Saruman stepped out told all, and it seemed to me the reason for the telepathy while Saruman droned on was to indicate her support of Gandalf and her mistrust, or comparative lack of regard, for Saruman.

RangerofTheNorth · **Joined:** Tue Feb 15, 2011 6:54 pm **Posts:** 483

whafrog wrote:

Beowulf03809 wrote:

It's not that I have a problem with her communicating telepathically. That is one of her traits. But to do it for no reason when you're face to face?

There was a reason: Saruman. The look on Gandalf's face when Saruman stepped out told all, and it seemed to me the reason for the telepathy while Saruman droned on was to indicate her support of Gandalf and her mistrust, or comparative lack of regard, for Saruman.

I was kind of disappointed with Saruman's character, I thought at that time he was more willing to help,, and I thought he'd be more likeable.
I may be wrong, or is this after he started his search for the ring of power at the gladden fields? If so it makes sense he would thwart any efforts against Sauron. Just expected more of a character development arc, from this to FOTR. Like Denethor I pity them, if they hadn't used the stones and fallen victims of their own hubris, they could have done so much.

Curufinwë · **Posted:** Sun Jan 13, 2013 5:36 pm

RangerofTheNorth wrote:

I was kind of disappointed with Saruman's character, I thought at that time he was more willing to help,, and I thought he'd be more likeable.
I may be wrong, or is this after he started his search for the ring of power at the gladden fields? If so it makes sense he would thwart any efforts against Sauron. Just expected more of a character development arc, from this to FOTR. Like Denethor I pity them, if they hadn't used the stones and fallen victims of their own hubris, they could have done so much.

Curunir fell when he started to research the rings for himself and wanted the one ring to study and create one that would give himself control. In the book he actually makes a ring of power for himself. He had been corrupt for quite some time in the book and Galadriel didn't trust him, thus her not supporting him becoming the head of the White council, she wanted Gandalf who was to humble to take the position himself (or that's the way I understood it). But sense they changed so much in the movie I'm not sure if any of this has any relevance.

In the Book Saruman was playing political games that bit him in the rear when the riders came out and he didn't find the one ring before Sauron's People found out it wasn't lost.

RangerofTheNorth · **Joined:** Tue Feb 15, 2011 6:54 pm **Posts:** 483

That's what I thought, I was just expecting a nicer vision, and was surprised that he was the same pompous ass from LOTR, what book did he make a ring in? I'm re-reading unfinished tales currently

Draugluin · **Posted:** Sun Jan 13, 2013 6:17 pm

Unless it's in Unfinished Tales, he never made a ring, he just studied the process. Although Gandalf did notice a ring on his finger at one point, I doubt it would have been very powerful if it was indeed a Ring of Power.

Curufinwë · **Posted:** Sun Jan 13, 2013 8:44 pm

I took it from this part of the exchange:

"Radagast the Bird-Tamer! Radagast the Simple! Radagast the Fool! Yet he had just the wit to play the part that I set him. For you have come, and that was all the purpose of my message. And here you will stay, Gandalf the Grey, and rest from journeys. For I am Saruman the Wise, Saruman Ring-maker, Saruman of Many Colours!"
- Council Of Elrond.

Draugluin · **Posted:** Sun Jan 13, 2013 8:58 pm

At that point, I wouldn't really trust what Saruman says. If he did make a ring, it was a lesser one without too much power, otherwise Sauron would have had him mass producing rings for his servants.

Curufinwë · **Posted:** Sun Jan 13, 2013 9:11 pm

Why would he tell Sauron he had the ability to make rings? And I don't mean to say its a ring as powerful as the One Ring. Saruman didn't want to get the ring from the hobbits to give it to Sauron it was to have it to study for himself so that he can overcome it and make one to dominate the one ring, like the one rings does to the Nine and Seven, for himself. Curunir wants to be the Lord of Middle Earth and bring the world into order as he sees it should be. The movie really simplified him and made him a sycophant when in the books he's looking for a way to turn things back to his favor.

At least this is how I understood it from when I read the books.

Edit: Some of these conclusions might have come from me reading "The Hunt for the Ring" in the Unfinished Tales.

Jamros · **Posted:** Sun Jan 13, 2013 9:22 pm

I understood Saruman as essentially forging a phony alliance with Sauron, playing a game of politics, with the hope of eventually getting the One Ring for himself and ruling Middle-earth. In the films, this is simplified to Saruman simply being a servant of Sauron.

Draugluin · **Posted:** Sun Jan 13, 2013 9:38 pm

In Saruman's mind, he was going to claim the Ring for himself. While the Ring was sentient, anyone with sufficient power could bend it to their will, however, it would corrupt them. That's why Gandalf wouldn't dare take it and why Sauron all but crapped his pants when he thought Aragorn had the Ring. However, the second that Saruman looked into the Palantir to talk to Sauron, he was under Sauron's complete control, even if he didn't know it. So, if he had made a ring of any real power, Sauron would have made Saruman make more.

Curufinwë · **Posted:** Sun Jan 13, 2013 9:44 pm

But under that reasoning why did Denethor call for aid from the Fiefdoms, send the red arrow to Rohan and light the beacons? Wouldn't he have just opened the Gates so that Sauron's armies could just walk in?

RangerofTheNorth · **Joined:** Tue Feb 15, 2011 6:54 pm **Posts:** 483

Denethor didn't dispair till the end when he saw his end in the palantir, he looks one more time during the seige and that's what makes him go mad. I think on the flip side it works in Saurons favor anyway if all his enemies were drawn to one place where he could kill them all.

Curufinwë · **Posted:** Sun Jan 13, 2013 10:12 pm

That's correct, I mostly making a retort to this:

Draugluin wrote:

However, the second that Saruman looked into the Palantir to talk to Sauron, he was under Sauron's complete control, even if he didn't know it. So, if he had made a ring of any real power, Sauron would have made Saruman make more.

But we are diverting drastically from topic...

Draugluin · **Posted:** Sun Jan 13, 2013 11:54 pm

The reason why Saruman was corrupted while Denethor wasn't is because Denethor was stronger willed than Saruman. Saruman was already corrupted because of his lust for the Ring and for more power, whereas Denethor looked in the Palantir to help save his people.

GothmogtheWerewolf · **Posted:** Thu Jan 17, 2013 8:24 pm

Sorry to mini-revive this, but did anyone else notice that the Warg Fimbul was riding in the final scene with the pine trees changed colour?

When they first arrived, Fimbul was riding in a black furred Warg, niticebly darker than the Wild Briwn Wargs around it, yet by the time Fimbul's Warg had walked forward a little,to around the time that Azog duels Thorin, the Warg suddenly becomes another brown warg, the same colour as the warg rode by the regular orc next to him.

Beowulf03809 · **Posted:** Fri Jan 18, 2013 1:45 pm

His warg was probably sick or injured on that day of shooting and they had to use a stand in. :rofl:

Pindergorn · **Posted:** Sat Feb 02, 2013 12:28 pm

I was reading the LOTR wiki and found this picture. Apparently its supposed to be Thrain II, Thorin's father, after he was captured and imprisoned in Dol Guldur and driven mad.

Along with the rumour that Bolg will become the Gatekeeper/Guard etc of Dol Guldur, I think its likely Gandalf will enter dol Guldur in the second film where he will discover Thrain.

Quote:

Many years later, Thráin grew older and he became restless. His desire to reclaim his kingdom of the Lonely Mountain grew. In TA 2841, he and a group of followers including Balin and Dwalin left their dwelling in the Blue Mountains (Ered Luin) and journeyed into Wilderland. They were pursued by the servants of Sauron and one morning, in the eaves of Mirkwood, his companions awoke to find that Thráin was missing. They searched in vain for him for days but he could not be found at all. It was later learned that he had been captured and imprisoned in the pits of Sauron's stronghold of Dol Guldur in southern Mirkwood. There he was tortured and Sauron took from him the last of the Dwarven Rings of Power, and left him there to die.

While on a mission to Dol Guldur, Gandalf the Grey came upon Thráin, and was given the old map. Thráin appeared so diminished that he had forgotten almost everything as well as his own name. Gandalf promised to deliver it to Thráin's son, but Thráin at the time had forgotten his name so Gandalf did not expect to be able to fulfill this promise. There Thráin died.

GothmogtheWerewolf · **Posted:** Sat Feb 02, 2013 1:37 pm

That was in the pre-trailer clips actually.

Lord Hurin · **Posted:** Sat Feb 02, 2013 4:14 pm

Surely it would have to be a flashback though, unless they heavily change the origins of the map.

That looks more like an Orc to me, the skin tone looks greyish. I suppose it could just be the lighting.

The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey opinions, SPOILERS!

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