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 Post subject: Re: Celevue's LotR campaign -behind the scenes (3/7 Helm's D
PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 8:45 pm 
Kinsman
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This is going to be incredible when complete. I'm really interested to see how all the little extra details will look, especially the great hall.
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 Post subject: Re: Celevue's LotR campaign -behind the scenes (3/7 Helm's D
PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 6:57 am 
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*jaw to floor impact*

:o

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 Post subject: Re: Celevue's LotR campaign -behind the scenes (3/7 Helm's D
PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 9:53 am 
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Whoa! That is going to be epic. I love challenging threads like this and look forward to the progress.

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 Post subject: Re: Celevue's LotR campaign -behind the scenes (3/7 Helm's D
PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 9:50 am 
Craftsman
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Just a little bit of info on where the glittering caves of aglarond are placed in relation to Helm's deep, this is from my own knowledge through the films and the 10 or so times i have read the book, as well as a little help from The Lord of the Ring: The Third Age which was mentioned a while back. Behind the deeping wall there as a long, shallow staircase that curves around to just behind the tower of helm hammerhand, here there is a little platform with some battlements for archers, this lies exactly to the left of the great hall. Now there should be a door joining the great hall to this passage as at the back of the little courtyard (this seems to me to be the best way to describe it although it is rectangular in shape) there is a passage through past the tower to the front wall of the hornburg as well as a door that leads into the mountains that is the entrance to the glittering caves. This is why when King Theoden asks Gamling to get the people of rohan further into the mountains form the great hall they can.

Just thought this might be a little help in making it as authentic as you possibly can :)

This wip is one of my favourites and I can't wait to see more of your updates, keep up the good work

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 Post subject: Re: Celevue's LotR campaign -behind the scenes (3/7 Helm's D
PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 7:10 am 
Craftsman
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Thanks, king elessar - Galanur also said the same, based on the game. However, I still think there is another entry to the caves... the scene in TTT where Éowyn protests to Aragorn that she is to go with the women and children has plenty of civilians walking towards the stables & carrying supplies. This would indicate that there is a way from the stables to the caves.

Later, when the Uruks have already taken Hornburg, Aragorn asks to send word to women to head to the passage towards the mountains, and he's looking towards the back right of the great hall. As far as I can tell, there is a doorway from the great hall on the right, i.e. opposite of the courtyard, and this seems to be the route through which people move between the great hall and the other interior parts of the keep. While I agree that there can be a door to the caves from the upper courtyard, and a connection from the great hall directly to this route to the caves, my terrain does not reach that far back, and I need to resort to other possible routes down to the caves. And, of course, given the civilian exodus to the stables, this level must also connect to the caves (or to the route there).

Although no source I know of details the route between the stables and the great hall, one must exist because Theoden et al are suddenly mounted as they charge out of the great hall. Hence, given the restrictions of my terrain size, I will have a staircase from the great hall level to the stables, and further from the stables to the caves. This may not be 100% authentic, but I'm willing to accept at least some liberties!
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 Post subject: Re: Celevue's LotR campaign -behind the scenes (3/7 Helm's D
PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2013 7:22 pm 
Craftsman
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It’s been a while since the previous update, so you may be wondering what’s happening behind the scenes of the campaign. Well, wonder no more! As I mentioned in the campaign battle report thread, I’ve sourced additional poses for the heroes, in particular, for the Fellowship members, to help make more dynamic photos for the battle reports. We can’t well have Sam wielding his frying pan all the time, and frankly, Frodo could use more aggressive moves every now and then, too. Here’s a photo of the amassed figures, yet to be painted (and, in some cases, to be basecoated, too).

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This was the first time I bought a used and already-painted figure (Legolas), with which I tried stripping the paint with acetone. It worked fine eventually (with a bit of Dremel metal brush work to get rid of the most stubborn paint residue), but if given a chance, I’ll gladly pay a little bit extra to get a plain metal figure to begin with. But before I start painting these hero figures (and by extension, continue the campaign), I am racing against time to get the Isengard and Rohan armies basecoated. This is such a large task that it needs to be done outside – and the Finnish autumn is progressing fast & winter is just around the corner. I’ve spent the better part of the summer months assembling and cleaning the Isengard force – here is a photo of the “troll assembly line”:

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I’m leaving the troll arms unglued; I want to depict some of the trolls as siege tower pushers. Although that role is still far in the future, I made the alternative arms already. Just picture a siege tower (or Grond) in front of these two:

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I’ve recently completed the assembly & cleanup of the Isengard army, and will proceed with the mass basecoating within the next few days as weather allows. Here’s an overall look at Saruman’s army on five stackable transport / storage trays:

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A closer look at tray 1 shows the Fighting Uruk-hai Battlehost, with Saruman (2 figures on foot, 1 mounted), three Uruk phalanx formations (3 companies each, one with captain & all three with a banner bearer), and two Uruk warband formations (3 companies each with captain, banner bearer and a shaman). Also on the tray are two trolls and an Isengard troll captain (we are using Mordor troll chieftain as a proxy here), as well as two Lurtz figures, Grima, Sharku on foot, and Merry & Pippin as Uruk captives. Pretty straight-forward assemblies, with two banner bearers converted from pike-wielding Uruks using wine-bottle foil as the banners.

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On the second tray: six formations of Isengard orcs (3, 3, 2, 2, 2 and 2 companies). We are using Morannon orcs instead of Mordor orcs – somehow the armor looks more Isengardish. All formations have captains, most have banners, and the larger ones have also a taskmaster and a drummer. There is also one shaman.

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 Post subject: Re: Celevue's LotR campaign -behind the scenes (3/7 Helm's D
PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2013 7:23 pm 
Craftsman
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The third tray holds the Uglúk’s Scouts Battlehost, with Uglúk’s raiders (3 companies), Grishnákh’s trackers (2 companies), Mauhúr’s Marauders (3 companies, including banner + drummer), and two Uruk scout warband formations (3 companies each, with one having a shaman). There are also three additional trolls on the tray. There are some minor conversions here, too – mostly additional shields, but I did remove the severed orc head from Uglúk’s hand (and replaced it with a shield). I somehow dislike special details tied to a certain specific event or location – imagine Aragorn seeing Uglúk at Amon Hen and wondering why that Uruk carries a severed orc head around. The same thing applies for the dead Rohan guy on the rock base of the wild warg chieftain (I keep thinking how the Fellowship members wonder near Moria as to why a Rohan warrior was so far from home), the dead Rohans on the Mûmak base (looking very out-of-place in Ithilien), or the dead dwarves under the Watcher-out-of-the-water (again, resulting in a puzzled Fellowship).

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The fourth tray has the Warg Riders of Isengard Battlehost, with Sharku’s hunters (3 companies with shields), and two six-company strong warg rider formations (one with shields, one with bows). Three more trolls on this tray as well. You’ll be seeing the already-painted wargs in the upcoming “Hounds of Sauron” scenario soon.

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The final tray includes the Uruk-hai Siege Warriors Battlehost, with Vrashkû’s talons (3 companies), Sappers (1 company), berserkers (1 company), two siege assault ballistas (the special resin movement trays are from Total System Scenic), a battering ram, and a formation of Uruk warriors (3 companies, with a captain, a banner bearer and a shaman). One final troll can be seen, and there are also four one-company formations of leftover Uruks, bringing the number of common formations to ten (and allowing for ten rare trolls).

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All told, this is about 500 models, with a bit shy of 6,000 points worth. The basecoating will be done with black spray, followed by drybrushed metals and dark flesh / brown / leather details, wash + highlights. Most of the models are not attached to slottabases; I will simultaneously spray paint a suitable amount of slottabases with dark yellow, followed by dipping the top surface in glue and dark yellow scatter material. Similar procedure will make painting & finishing the movement trays a relatively fast process.

Now, on the Rohan side, the models (including Haldir’s elves legendary formation) fit on four transport trays. There will be several battlehosts on Rohan’s side, too, including Théoden’s Guard, Warriors of the Westfold, Riders of the Westfold and Éomer’s Knights. Here’s a pic of the model pile while they are still in boxes and blisters:

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Here is a picture of the currently ongoing assembly / cleaning process (a stage which could be called “horse factory”).

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I’ve still plenty to do in terms of assembly & cleaning of plastic figures; all the metal figures are already cleaned and ready for basecoating. The four plastic horse poses are quite repetitive (and the metal banner bearers on plastic horses are very top-heavy), so I’m thinking of ordering a few metal horses from Mirliton for heroes, captains and banner bearers.

Most of the boxes and blisters are collected over the past four years or so, and I’m cracking them open only now as you can see. It has been an interesting experience, not always problem-free… my Eorl the Young lacked the separate horse legs (one plastic horse donated his), one of the Rohan captains missed his shield, and, most annoyingly, the Finecast Rohan commanders set came with two captains and without the King’s huntsman. Since the company I bought the set from has disappeared (Maelstrom Games), I’ve emailed GW customer service directly about this (but haven’t received any reply so far). Even if I did get the missing sprue, I could use two huntsman figures. My plans are to convert the Finecast banner bearer into a substitute huntsman (along with a surplus Hama figure if GW ignores my plea). Alas, I did like the specific miniature sculpt, and do sorely miss it. I had been less sorry if the duplicated figure had been a hornblower – the captain in the set has, again, the annoying special detail (a dead orc). A fine figure on its own, but I keep picturing him on the Deeping Wall saying “oh, this lone, wandering Mordor orc? I’ve no idea where he came from, but I killed him nevertheless”. Oh well, even if I had got two hornblowers, that would not have been enough – in fact, the planned conversions for the Rohan force include mostly hornblowers (both on foot and mounted). The captain with dead orc might appear in the battle report for the Pelennor Fields eventually. The extra copy I will probably trade.

The Rohan painting procedure consists of black and green undercoat (sprayed outdoors), and various undercoat colours for the horses (there was a great guide in May 2013 White Dwarf). Slottabases and movement trays will get a similar dark yellow treatment as the Isengard forces’ bases.

Once I get both armies basecoated, I will paint the alternate Fellowship members. Then I think it is high time I start working on the Helm’s Deep itself (since the last update, I’ve only done some floor tile scribing and sawing of lumber for the shale understructure). I still have a goal of getting the fortress and as many figures as possible done before the first of March, 2014 (the day of the local model show). I promise to have more frequent updates in this thread; the next post is most likely about the basecoating of the Isengard army. Stay tuned!
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 Post subject: Re: Celevue's LotR campaign -behind the scenes (19/9 figures
PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2013 8:40 pm 
Ringwraith
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Wow that is quite a project! You certainly have your work cut out but it will be epic once done. Regarding Ugluk, doesn't he have a special rule about decapitating orcs? If so the swinging head could have been left after all.

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 Post subject: Re: Celevue's LotR campaign -behind the scenes (19/9 figures
PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2013 8:46 pm 
Craftsman
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I wonder how much all of those miniatures cost...
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 Post subject: Re: Celevue's LotR campaign -behind the scenes (19/9 figures
PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2013 9:00 pm 
Craftsman
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@ukfreddybear, yes - Uglúk does have a special rule regarding orc-eating, so technically if I were a completist, I should have two Uglúk figures - one with the severed head and another without. But alas, I can still use the special rule even if he holds a shield in his right hand - and without that head looking out-of-place at Amon Hen. Besides, his formation should have shields, and he'd be the only one without one if I hadn't done the conversion.

@Hill-Troll, I've purchased a majority of metal figures at a big discount at a local hobby store, and I've also purchased the majority of plastic boxes when you could still get 24 figs for less than 14 pounds (with free shipping) from Maelstrom Games. This forum has been quite helpful in informing me about upcoming price hikes, and I've often acted prior to those - and in any case, the cost is distributed over several years.
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 Post subject: Re: Celevue's LotR campaign -behind the scenes (19/9 figures
PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2013 10:03 am 
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The scale of this is simply immense and you have my total respect at what your trying to do.
I note you've been collecting figures for 4 years. Has this been your plan throughout, to create battles fom all the key points from the films ?
Those trays for the Isengard force are nice. Very handy and I may pinch that idea.

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 Post subject: Re: Celevue's LotR campaign -behind the scenes (19/9 figures
PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2013 12:41 pm 
Craftsman
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I guess a campaign like this was in the plans very early on - my collecting pretty much started with the launch of WotR, so even at the beginning, I wanted to play through the combined scenarios in the WotR rulebook. Adding SBG scenarios along the way into a full campaign was a natural step shortly thereafter.

The storage / transport trays are indeed handy - I made ten of them to allow easy moving of battlehosts from storage to wherever it is we are playing. I have two larger storage drawers (with a combined capacity of about 150 companies), but I realized that they do not fit through doors without tilting, and that wreaks havoc with models on them...
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 Post subject: Re: Celevue's LotR campaign -behind the scenes (19/9 figures
PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 5:38 am 
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Man that's an insane amount of models right there, I hope you can get them based all in quick fashion.

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 Post subject: Re: Celevue's LotR campaign -behind the scenes (19/9 figures
PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 6:40 am 
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EPIC Troll Army!
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 Post subject: Re: Celevue's LotR campaign -behind the scenes (19/9 figures
PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 7:06 pm 
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You can probably imagine it took quite a while to prep and mount the figures for basecoating. In this photo, you can see the entire Isengard foot soldier army, plus trolls - and all the Rohan metal figures. Plenty of blue-tack was used to secure the models.

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For riders without mounts, 10mm wooden dowel with 1.5mm (riders of Rohan) and 2.5mm (warg riders) drilled holes was suitable.

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I spray painted the models outside with GW and Army Painter black basecoat. I think I used three cans - there are some 550 models there. I also spray painted some individual parts with black and brown undercoat.

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Plenty of slottabases as well as movement trays were spray painted with Tamiya dark yellow. I used three cans, and ran out of paint. I still need to spray another coat to a handful of cavalry trays - and there are about 70 infantry trays yet to paint. I guess another three cans should do it...

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Here the Isengard / Rohan models are back inside, now fully undercoated and ready for tin bitz & chainmail drybrush (at least the Isengard force). First, however, I must detach the figures and replace them onto the transport / storage trays.

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The weather forecast says it'll get quite chilly here - Tamiya spray paint instructions warn not to spray in temperatures below +10C, so it may be that my spray painting outside is coming to an end very soon indeed. While I still had a chance, I sprayed a few tree trunks with various brown and green-grey colors. I'll be doing some autumn-colored trees from these, to be used in the Amon Hen terrain I'll build early next year (and they can be used later on for Lothlórien).

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I still have the plastic Rohan riders, horses and warriors to clean up and undercoat. The Army Painter spray cans seem to tolerate +5C, so I'm hoping to get the remaining figures tidied up soon, so that I can still paint them outside - the same goes for the remaining infantry movement trays. I can paint in the garage, but there is always some fallout of paint dust (not to mention the infernal odour), so I'd definitely prefer outside. More pics to follow...stay tuned!
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 Post subject: Re: Celevue's LotR campaign -behind the scenes (23/9 basecoa
PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 8:22 pm 
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lots of work :)

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 Post subject: Re: Celevue's LotR campaign -behind the scenes (23/9 basecoa
PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 8:27 pm 
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I don't think I've ever seen such an ambitious or awesome project!

Simply gob-smacking =O

To what degree of detail will you paint them?

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 Post subject: Re: Celevue's LotR campaign -behind the scenes (23/9 basecoa
PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 8:33 pm 
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sooo.... manyyy....!!! I LOVE IT! :D
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 Post subject: Re: Celevue's LotR campaign -behind the scenes (23/9 basecoa
PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 11:17 pm 
Loremaster
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After you have finished the campaign, you should put everything into an official online article.
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 Post subject: Re: Celevue's LotR campaign -behind the scenes (23/9 basecoa
PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 12:27 am 
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The storage trays look very interesting. Good luck with the weather. 8) It is finally cool enough to work outside here :)

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