Beowulf03809 wrote:
I have no problem with Epic Strike being used in the Duel. Doing so generally drains most of a Hero's Might, puts them at risk and helps recreate such scenes as one of the major heroes of the films cutting their way through hordes of Orc on their way to his goal. But in a game there really should be some way of defending against it without having to throw out all low and medium Heroes for your army and just get into an Epic Strike Hero arms race.
I think thats due, at least in part, to preconceived notions and expectations of the game.
Tons of people wail, gnash their teeth and pull their hair over ES used in duels and how it basically breaks the game and their enjoyment of it.
Personally, our group of 10 people have no issue with this. So either ES really isn't as much of an issue as so many portray or we are an oddity and the vocal and eternal white noise produced by the internet forums users who think they know more than anyone else how the game "should be played" are right. (not directed at you but at other posters on other forums mostly who voice their opinion on this mater at every opportunity even when the subject has nothing to do with ES)
I agree with Xelee's two posts in this thread. They pretty much sum up my feelings on the matter.
I think it comes down to what a group of people expect to glean from the game. If a group are into pick up games with no communication prior to the game and making utterly competitive (and frankly, painfully un-fun) lists, then ES in duels really is a problem in the truest sense of the word. But then again so are the counselor engines and anything else which you have to ask why a person feels the need to take a very thematic game and turn it into a game that is as competitive as Magic the Gathering.
Although if a group are into making fun thematic lists which don't abuse every single opportunity to be competitive, then ES in duels hasn't been an issue thus far. Sure it sucks when you get slammed by them, but like Xelee noted this is a game with very high casualty removal.
Concerning the dwarf example you listed, I frankly fault the dwarf player and not the list. Gimli should have called ES (response to amdur calling heroic duel and resolves immediately) and then also called a duel against amdur and then it would have been a roll off to see whose duel goes first.*
* Though this is assumption that amdur called a heroic duel and not an epic duel, which is more likely since the cost is the same but has better odds of winning by such a huge margin as you noted. In this case the results would have indeed been dire for the dwarves, but at least there would have been recourse and Gimli likely would have won due to the extra dice for the epic duel already being used on the shield bearer. In short, amdur possibly would have died (gimli has the advantage of calling the duel) and his F10 would have been dust. The outcome would have been very different if the player had "played better" so to speak. He basically let amdur roll over his formation without using the tools ready at hand which is Gimli's response to Amdur's challenge.
But thats a case where two armies and two formations with the same capability are dueling.
If Gimli had not been there, the battle could have indeed gone as you described (even though amdur's roll was quite good and the shield bearer's roll was quite bad for this result to occur. Such is the fickle nature of chance) and the unit rolls up.
Amdur basically wins by simply calling ES. Its now left to chance how badly the shieldbearer will lose (or possibly tie, however unlikely) Amazing how a 165 point amdur can slap around a 25 point shieldbearer... Whats really amazing is how people expect it to be any different.
So given the failure of the dwarf player to respond with the tools in the unit when he should of, what else could he have done? Charge the hell out of that unit containing such volatile epic heroes for one. Expecting that single dwarf unit to take the duel and subsequent charge of that easterling formation is pretty much rewarded with failure.
I dont suffer units containing such things to last long on the table and devote a large amount of tactical resources to expunging them from the field. Its why I dont fear aragorn anymore. Because I make sure that if I am dueled, I do my best to ensure I am charging him from a flank or rear with another unit if possible. Punishing them for the hubris os calling a duel. Two nice sized units will generally eat a decent unit that contains such a juicy morsel who has the feared "ES".
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I suppose the other option would be if you use such Heroes to keep them back positions until the duelists have done their damage to each other.
) and can couple it with Epic Rage to crank up her Formation if needed. Several other Good Heroes have Epic Strike and some have some extras that help boost them up but I'm trying to investigate options other than ES vs. ES too.
