ShadowLord in SBG

fritskuhntm · **Posted:** Fri Sep 30, 2011 11:24 am

I used a ShadowLord on Fellbeast along side a Mumakil, and had the following questions:

A) do I measure the Pale's affect from the Fellbeast base, or from the Shadowlord himself? Hieght is an issue when trying to protect models in a howdah.

B) how much of the Pale covers mumak & howdah? Does it cover all the mumakil & models in the howdah, even though only some are within 6"...or does it cover only the models in the howdah that are actually within the 6" Pale?

C) If the mumak is behind the ShadowLord, but out of the 6" range, is it still blocked from sight by the dome of 'inpenatrable veil of darkness' from the Shadowlord in front of it? Or can it be seen as if the Pale were not there, and be shot at normally?

GothmogtheWerewolf · **Posted:** Fri Sep 30, 2011 1:21 pm

A) from base

B) anything within 6"

C) probably still blocked.

Beowulf03809 · **Posted:** Fri Sep 30, 2011 2:25 pm

I believe for Blinding Light it was clarified that anything in LoS behind the caster is still protected. This should work the same, no?

Hilbert · **Joined:** Mon Jun 06, 2011 7:07 am **Posts:** 2088

I agree with Gotmog TheWerewolf thought I am not sure if the third is right...

fritskuhntm · **Posted:** Fri Sep 30, 2011 6:30 pm

Beowulf03809 wrote:

I believe for Blinding Light it was clarified that anything in LoS behind the caster is still protected. This should work the same, no?

It should, yes. Any chance you could link me to that clarification? I read a discussion in Last Alliance where everyone leaned the other way--and SuicideMarsBar pointed out the field day for Rangers & Elves: that they could get 3+ hits on the troll more than 6" behind the ShadowLord and then roll In The Way for all the poor orcs supposedly protected by the Pale...

Measuring from the base of the Fell Beast: how sure is that? If true, than even mounted on a Fell Beast, the ShadowLord can't protect a Mumak commander, even if the models actually are within 6" of each other... "Realistically" the Pale comes from the model, not the base... A question in the same line: do Howdah archers and rock throwers also measure from the base? Or from the model itself? From the front of the base, or closest to the model itself? Seems like picky questions, but one answer will give quite a range advantage over the other.

GothmogtheWerewolf · **Posted:** Fri Sep 30, 2011 9:44 pm

All special rules, magic powers etc... are measured from the models base.

FireKnife · **Posted:** Fri Sep 30, 2011 10:43 pm

From the base, in the case of a Howdah Harad model this is from his base, in the Howdah as he has a seperate base the the Mumak, the Howdah is essentially a piece of scenery on the back of a model. In the case of the Shadowlord it is his base wether he is one foot, horse or FB.

'FireKnife'

fritskuhntm · **Posted:** Mon Oct 03, 2011 6:40 am

Great: thanks. Further on the 'coverage' question:
A) say that a part of the base of a cavalry model is within the 6" Pale, but not the model itself...does the model count as covered, or not?
B) Most of a fight is within the Pale, but not the supporting spearman: is that spearman covered or not?

BlackMist · **Posted:** Mon Oct 03, 2011 10:38 am

About the standing behind SL but not within 6" - Blinding Light and Pall of Night are DIFFERENT rules. They are not the same rule and nothing that applies to one does so automatically to the other. Model out of 6", even if blocked by SL will NOT benefit from it.

About the coverage - All rules are from BASE to BASE. It doesn't matter how illogical that might be, it is simple. If you were to use the Shadow Lord himself as the point of the Pall, then I'm not sure how highly positioned he is, but he would probably not be able to cover any models around himself unless they were elevated, so you have to apply this rule change both ways.

Quote:

A) say that a part of the base of a cavalry model is within the 6" Pale, but not the model itself...does the model count as covered, or not?
B) Most of a fight is within the Pale, but not the supporting spearman: is that spearman covered or not?

A) As per the rules - YES, it's base to base. The only rules that don't deal with bases but with the models themselves are those of VISIBILITY.
B) The Spearman is not part of the fight. Even if he was, he would still have to be within 6" to benefit from it.

Beowulf03809 · **Posted:** Mon Oct 03, 2011 1:30 pm

Interesting.

How does the rule for PoN in SBG read? It makes no mention of models behind the source?

fritskuhntm · **Posted:** Mon Oct 03, 2011 8:24 pm

BlackMist wrote:

About the standing behind SL but not within 6" - Blinding Light and Pall of Night are DIFFERENT rules. They are not the same rule and nothing that applies to one does so automatically to the other. Model out of 6", even if blocked by SL will NOT benefit from it. .

None of this is covered in anything I've read...the Pale is described as 'an impenetrable viel of darkness', which sounds like the mirror of Blinding Light, with the same qualites. So why doesn't it work the same as Blinding Light? Have I missed some official clarafication, or is this all community census?

fritskuhntm · **Posted:** Mon Oct 03, 2011 8:24 pm

BlackMist wrote:

About the standing behind SL but not within 6" - Blinding Light and Pall of Night are DIFFERENT rules. They are not the same rule and nothing that applies to one does so automatically to the other. Model out of 6", even if blocked by SL will NOT benefit from it. .

None of this is covered in anything I've read...the Pale is described as 'an impenetrable viel of darkness', which sounds like the mirror of Blinding Light, with the same qualites. So why doesn't it work the same as Blinding Light? Have I missed some official clarafication, or is this all community census?

I really appreciate this, BTW: just what I was looking for.

BlackMist · **Posted:** Tue Oct 04, 2011 1:02 pm

Description = fluff. The actual rule is what the effect it has in the game and it only states that models within 6" are affected.

BizzareWarstar · **Posted:** Sat Oct 22, 2011 11:48 am

does this rule also effect throwing weapons and magic that requires line of sight ?

lorderkenbrand · **Posted:** Thu Nov 10, 2011 2:49 pm

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_Cus ... c_2008.pdf

Bizzare-Warstar: The special rule says 'shot' so I'd say any ranged weapon. That said, a throwing weapon is treated differently since it is used in the Move phase and within 6" so that model is within the Pall anyway.

As for magic, well like I said, it's any shot. As far as I'm concerned magic is not 'shot' it is cast

To clarify: The Pall of Darkness affects neither!

hithero · **Posted:** Thu Nov 10, 2011 6:31 pm

lorderkenbrand wrote:

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m2140032_Mordor_FAQ_Dec_2008.pdf

Bizzare-Warstar: The special rule says 'shot' so I'd say any ranged weapon. That said, a throwing weapon is treated differently since it is used in the Move phase and within 6" so that model is within the Pall anyway.

As for magic, well like I said, it's any shot. As far as I'm concerned magic is not 'shot' it is cast

To clarify: The Pall of Darkness affects neither!

Throwing weapons are treated and are shooting weapons, so Darkness effects them, magic isn't though so has no effect.

lorderkenbrand · **Posted:** Sun Nov 13, 2011 3:16 pm

hithero wrote:

lorderkenbrand wrote:

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m2140032_Mordor_FAQ_Dec_2008.pdf

Bizzare-Warstar: The special rule says 'shot' so I'd say any ranged weapon. That said, a throwing weapon is treated differently since it is used in the Move phase and within 6" so that model is within the Pall anyway.

As for magic, well like I said, it's any shot. As far as I'm concerned magic is not 'shot' it is cast

To clarify: The Pall of Darkness affects neither!

Throwing weapons are treated and are shooting weapons, so Darkness effects them, magic isn't though so has no effect.

Okay on page 45 it does say throwing weapons can be used in the shoot phase within the 6" so in any case the Darkness won't affect their line of sight. But also
"a model can throw its weapon at the foe it is about to fight. This is an exception to the normal rules as it allows a warrior to 'shoot' as it moves"

So it is a 'shot' however it is within the 6" (actually should be 1" away according to the rules). This can't affect line of sight otherwise the Shadowlord could never be charged! I believe the rule is for all 'shots' outside of the 6". I guess it's how you interpret the Pall of Darkness to appear

Beowulf03809 · **Posted:** Mon Nov 14, 2011 8:29 pm

I would give that if you use your throwing weapon during the shoot phase then it's a "shot" like any bow, crossbow, etc. However, if you use it during the charge it's not. Especially considering you only use it when you are in the last 1" of the charge.

ShadowLord in SBG

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